Okay, so I finally downloaded the Amazing Slowdowner thing and ended up purchasing it, 'cause I like it so much. Anywho, I slowed down tunes from Mary Bergin and Paddy Maloney, and marvelled at how even their rolls were - they stick to the triplet rhythm pretty closely. L.E. McCullough, on the other hand, adds a little skip into his rolls. The first note of the triplet is lengthened, the second one shortened, and the last stays the same. (In written music it would be a triplet with a dot on the first note, a double flag on the second, and the third remaining unchanged.)
Since I learned to play rolls by listening to McCullough’s CDs/books, I’ve been playing them with a skip. I really do like the lift it gives to they rhythm of the melody.
Today, I started playing rolls like Mary Bergin’s and Paddy Maloney’s, and found that I really like the way those sounded too.
I’m sure that I’ll end up using both in my playing.
So how come nobody ever mentions this difference when they write/talk about rolls?
Probably because nobody knew anything about it until you mentioned it. (Donning fireproof underwear.) I have to admit I’ve never slowed down Paddy Moloney’s playing. I was actually planning to tonight- I’ve been meaning to transcribe Dogs Among the Bushes for years. But Murphy Stout is coming over, so, I’ll do it another day. Also, I never slowed down LE McCullough. Until very recently, I hardly ever played any rolls or gave them much thought. I’ve tended toward triplets (probably due to listening to a lot of fiddle music) but I’ve questioned whether some of my triplets were actually rolls. Not sure. I slowed down and transcribed that reel from that Wild Geese album and got intrigued by the rolls in it. Been fooling with them. That guy certainly sustains the first note of a roll.
Tony
Congrats! Learning to play the rolls straight & even really helped me. But go back and read what you’ve read about rolls. The different rhythmic approaches are mentioned pretty widely. I suspect for you it’s like it was for me. Before I got it, I didn’t even see it.
Brother Steve talks about the equal length of the three parts of the roll, and check out what he said in this recent thread:
Well, for the record, Limonhead, I noticed the unevenness in your rolls and told you to play em more even (what a know-it-all I am!!) at Tony’s party. i guess (sniff,sob) that you weren’t listening, amidst all the hubbub.
I really think that starting from even, then customizing, is the way to go. As for the other way you are describing, i can kind of imagine a more ACCENTED first note but never like two sixteenths and an eighth instead of a triplet, which is sort of what I perceived in your playing. . I work really hard for even first and always find that the tip is trickier than the cut when I am not warmed up.
It bears repeating: listen to some rolls on the fiddle, listen to a piper roll, listen to a banjo and a box play rhythmic roll replacements. This gives you the overview to then apply to your instrument. I have certain little mental soundclips from those various instruments that I think of when I practice and play…
Well, I’ve discovered, thanks to Weeks’ reply, that I actually approach rolls yet another way. The way he’s describing, 2 sixteenths and an eighth instead of a triplet, describes exactly what I play on reels. I like the way it imitates how IT musicians interpret triplets of varying notes - more of a ‘2 16ths and an 8th’ thing than a triplet.
Today, I was playing reels with an even triplet roll on the triplets, and really (reely) did enjoy it, though I must say that I miss the ‘skippy’ feeling of playing it ala McCullough.
Again, I’ll probably end up using both techniques.
Tony, it’s really cool that you and Murph get to jam together so frequently! You guys should really think about cutting some tracks for an album.
Bloomfield, so what did you find easier: the skippy rolls or the even rolls? The even rolls were a lot easier for me, though I figure any roll I would have started with would have facilitated the learning of the others.
I took the roll Steve plays on his roll page for Rambling Pitchfork and stuck it into a sound program and noticed that he plays the first note of the roll slightly longer and the middle note slightly shorter. I sent Steve an email mentioning this and he said “Really?”
Perhaps the point is that the “swing” that gives Irish music it’s life is a subtle thing.
I heard Paddy Keenan playing on the radio tonight, and it was a real education in the way to play rolls. In the tune I was listening to, he was playing them very regularly, i.e., three even notes. But of course, in that tune, it was a way to divide up three notes that another instrument could possibly have tongues or strummed, etc.
Then in the same program was someone playing the flute on a different tune, where the first note of the roll was elongated. It worked really well for that tune and sounded great.
So, it seems like you could pick how you play them (regularly or with elongated first note) to accommodate the feeling you wish to achieve.
I think you are more likely to imitate the jig rhythm on a jig roll, go even on a long reel roll and get a bit uneven again on an off-beat reel roll (still trying to figure out how to describe the latter, but its more articulated). The music suggests it.
I usually play a roll evenly, but sometimes I like to accentuate the first note and then play the rest as fast as my fingers will go. The only place I know of where this is mentioned is in the Penny Whistle Book by Robin Williamson. That happens to be the first book I picked up when I got my first whistle.
I’m really enjoying having another interpretation of rolls to add to my bag-o-tricks. The C part of “The Butterfly” is an excellent place to use them all in turn. (“turn”: no pun intended, but the symbol used to indicate rolls in ITM is called a ‘turn’ in classical music - they sound completely different.) Anyway, the different rolls give the C part a flittering, fluttering character that I find particularly appealling. On the first long B note I’ve been playing an even triplet roll, then a dotted triplet roll on the second long B note, then a quick roll (a.k.a. 2 sixteenths and an eighth) on the last long B note. It sounds cool.
in Irish music the half moon symbol is used to indicate a note should be ornamented, a practice introduced by Breandan Breathnach for his collection Ceol Rinnce na hEirreann. The ‘turn’ is only used on the interenet because we are forced to do so by the designers of ABC software.
Now, Murphy Stout’s got quite a head on him - but going by appearances he’s more of a Pale Ale. Awfully nice guy, too, if he’d just kick that nasty accordian habit.
Let’s put it this way: I didn’t learn to play rolls until I started playing them evenly. That’s how I play most all of them: even. Sometimes, particularly in jigs, the first note stretches out, and, you know, that’s fine.
I’ve long suspected Brother Steve of being a fraud, a cheat, a crook, and probably foreign. Here’s the proof now. :roll:
(Donning fireproof underwear.) I have to admit I’ve never slowed down Paddy Moloney’s playing. I was actually planning to tonight- I’ve been meaning to transcribe Dogs Among the Bushes for years. But Murphy Stout is coming over, so, I’ll do it another day. Also, I never slowed down LE McCullough. Until very recently, I hardly ever played any rolls or gave them much thought. I’ve tended toward triplets (probably due to listening to a lot of fiddle music) but I’ve questioned whether some of my triplets were actually rolls. Not sure. I slowed down and transcribed that reel from that Wild Geese album and got intrigued by the rolls in it. Been fooling with them. That guy certainly sustains the first note of a roll.
