Yesterday I reported on another thread that I just bought a B flat and an F generation. Now I’ve played them both quite a lot. Here’s the deal.
The F is beautiful. Of course it’s very high and certain tunes would be a bad idea if avoiding pain is a factor. But I wanted something high. I would have bought a G but the holes on them are so close together that my fingers get in each other’s way. Anyway, this F is lovely sounding. The tone is very sweet and pure, more pure than any whistle I’ve got. It doesn’t need a thing, in my opinion. A fantastic use of $8.50.
The B flat is a little more ambiguous. The tone is a lot more chiffy. There seems to be a bit of a squeak in the transitions sometimes; B flat, the note an octave above the bell, seems especially temperamental. Sometimes it comes out fine; others it squeaks first or doesn’t sound properly at all. This especially when moving quickly. I tried the tweaking described on the main page: heated up water, removed head, strip of sandpaper handy. Upon examination there did not appear to be loose or extra bits of plastic anywhere. I did some light sanding on the edge of the blade but didn’t go too far for fear of ruining it. I’m not really sure if that made it better or worse or neither.
This is also the lowest whistle I own to date so the spacing is unfamiliar. I’m sure with more practise and a better command I’ll be able to see the true strengths and weaknesses of this whistle better. As it stands, though, for the price I’m still very happy with it. It sounds good, it plays pretty easily.
At this point I give Generations a hearty commendation. Why all the bad press? Was I just lucky? Are some keys worse than others?
At this point I give Generations a hearty commendation. Why all the bad press? Was I just lucky? Are some keys worse than others?
It’s my understanding from the various times this topic’s come up that most of the folks who aren’t ‘sold’ on generations generally dislike the quality control issue, and don’t have issues with the sound.
My biggest beef with the generations is not with their sound, but how in tune they often are. I bought a box of 10 brass D’s on ebay for a little over $3.00 each (for giving away to kids at the local Renaissance Fair). I pitted them against my electonic tuner, because at the time a large debate about the gen’s quality control was going on C&F. Of those ten, every one of them had at least one note that was out of tune when blown with what I’d consider consistent breath pressure, and it wasn’t always the same note. Some were off by as much as 20 cents!
That said, six of them or so (my memory could be faulty on the exact number) could be brought “in tune” with careful breath control (blowing harder or softer slightly alters the pitch of a note), so I’m sure that if I spent months or years playin those whistles alone, I’d learn all of their ‘character’ and be able to make 'em sound good. My personal preference is for an instrument that has more consistent breath requirements across the range of the whistle.
That does leave 4 of the original whistles that were unable to be brought in tune ‘as is’ with breath control. To make these playable with others, they’d need to be tweaked or otherwise altered. My personal preference is that when I buy something, it should work the way it’s supposed to. That, and and I’ve only ever sucessfully tweaked whistles into useless lumps of plastic and metal.
All that said, I do play a good Gen F in my band (one of my female singers perfers that key), and don’t intend on replacing it, though I am eventually gonna get a Low F of some kind for variation. Unfortunately, fate may make me as I recently noticed the fipple on the F cracking. I feel I just happened to get lucky..I bought a generation in every key when I was new, and when I got together with my band, we needed an F and I happened to have one that was good. If it ever does go belly up, I probably won’t waste time trying to find another ‘good one’, and instead buy something in F from a maker with known consitency.
[ This Message was edited by: Wandering_Whistler on 2002-11-07 13:26 ]
oh, and I have 3 gen Fs and they’ve all cracked. There’s a problem with the plastic mold they use or something because it always leaves a weak “seam” that goes up the front of the mouthpiece, and it just always eventually splits, which really is a shame, even if they are cheap whistles…
On 2002-11-07 13:18, jim stone wrote:
The Bb gen is often said to
be the most dependable key
for good Generations. The high
D is often said to vary more from
whistle to whistle.
I have an older Bb that I cherish. More recently (past year) all the Bbs I tried were so-so or bad whereas most Ds were good or so-so. And the Cs seem to be really ripping right now. I just bought 3 Cs and 2 Ds and am pretty happy (ask me again after I’ve tweaked my tweaks). Anyway, I am not buying Bbs at the moment.
I think the reason why most of the Generation fans dismiss the poor quality control is because of the cheap price.
Susato whistles are getting very popular in Ireland, and I’m sure that they’re slowly replacing Generation whistles. They’re relatively cheap, but they’re very loud and tunable… Anyway, that’s an interesting subject, but kinda OT.
On 2002-11-07 13:39, Azalin wrote:
Susato whistles are getting very popular in Ireland, and I’m sure that they’re slowly replacing Generation whistles.
Well, that’s very relative, indeed your girlfriend and her sister were ripping into it on their susatos when I eavesdropped on the three of you this summer. The reality in my locality is that there are only two or three people playing them, all of them deeply hated for it by all other musicians.
For some people they serve a purpose but calling them popular…
Yeah, it’s just that I saw many whistle players playin’ the Susato, and I feel as if it’s “popularity” is progressing, even if the rate is one new whistle player per year. Hmmmm, I’m basing this comment on Willie week sessions, where it’s so noisy that the use of a Susato is much more justified. Normal, standard sessions are another story…
Now, do the Susato players in your area know that they are hated?
I also am quite fond of my gen f. Cute little thing, sweet sounding and decently in tune. Excellent backpacking whistle to save an ounce or two. The wife, of course, complains when I play anything extended in the second octave.
Message to Wandering: 20 cents doesn’t sound like much to me (no puns intended). I bought a $250 dollar whistle that was out by more than that on a couple of higher notes. (I returned it).
I just bought a complete set of Gens for about $30 and change. The Bb is temperamental, I know. It may be imagination, or I may be getting to be a better player, but it seems to me that Generation is getting that QC thing under control. I substituted the “Folk” Gen whistle for the regular. I’ll tweak it, but it really is fine as is. The C and the higher ones are excellent as is ( or “as are”)
On 2002-11-07 18:19, E = Fb wrote:
Message to Wandering: 20 cents doesn’t sound like much to me (no puns intended).
Well, the average human ear can detect about 5 cents out of tune. Compared to that 20 cents out of tune is quite a bit. It’s 1/5 of the way to the next semitone, and 4 times greater than the average ear will be able to detect. Personally, I’d return any high-end instrument that out of tune.
[ This Message was edited by: Wandering_Whistler on 2002-11-07 20:49 ]
On 2002-11-07 13:39, Azalin wrote:
Susato whistles are getting very popular in Ireland, and I’m sure that they’re slowly replacing Generation whistles.
Well, that’s very relative, indeed your girlfriend and her sister were ripping into it on their susatos when I eavesdropped on the three of you this summer. The reality in my locality is that there are only two or three people playing them, all of them deeply hated for it by all other musicians.
For some people they serve a purpose but calling them popular…
Peter, I like and respect you, but I hope the part about “being hated for it” was tongue-in-cheek.
I personally don’t want to play music with anyone who hates other folks over what instrument they play–no matter how good or authentic the session.
OK, I’ve tweaked all 6 whistles in the set of Generations. That was the best $30 or so I’ve spent on whistles. The sound varies between good (high G) to “as good as it gets” (D and C). I don’t need to describe the sound. It’s classic Generation sound as it once was. The tweaking took all of 30 minutes, except for getting the fipple off the C, which took an additional 20 minutes and put me on the outs with God for a while.
The best kept secret in the Generation line is the E-flat. A lovely sound (and guitar players can’t ruin your solo by jumping in - at least not the second time round!).
Try O’Carolan’s Concerto on a Generation F, by the way. Audiences will be screaming.
Hoo boychik!
–^ = = = = = = = (((
whistle on & on …
[ This Message was edited by: ELLIOTT on 2002-12-09 01:17 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ELLIOTT on 2002-12-09 01:19 ]
On 2002-12-09 01:12, ELLIOTT wrote:
The best kept secret in the Generation line is the E-flat. A lovely sound (and guitar players can’t ruin your solo by jumping in - at least not the second time round!).
Try O’Carolan’s Concerto on a Generation F, by the way. Audiences will be screaming.
Hoo boychik!
–^ = = = = = = = (((
whistle on & on …
[ This Message was edited by: ELLIOTT on 2002-12-09 01:17 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ELLIOTT on 2002-12-09 01:19 ]
That may be why I’ve been so satisfied with my Generations…both are Ebs (one is more than 20 years old, and the other is a little more than 10, however, so it could just be that I got them before the QC issues arose). I don’t play them much anymore, because they don’t quite measure up to my O Briain “improved” and my Elfsong, but they’re decent little whistles nonetheless (my daughter has recently started tootling on the nickel one, which is only fair, as it’s the one she teethed on when she was about 18 months old!)
I went back into my boxes of junk this weekend and what do you know, there was a Gen in Bb. I know I am not at all qualified to say didaly about any whistle but…I love the sound of this whistle. All I did was do the hot water bath to the fipple so I could move it around a little and I havent used my guitar tunner on it yet but heck this thing sounds great. Maybe its the fact that its the lowest whistle I have but I realy like it. I must have bought it about 25 years ago and maybe that has something to do with it but I cant bad-mouth it at all. I wounder if the tweeking you are talking about are the tweeks here in the main site and if I should try them or not. I does look like the blade is a little sharp. What do ya think?
Tom
Just got part of my latest order from the Whistle Shop (out of the Dixon D and Brass Gen D I ordered), including 3 Nickel Generations (Eb, D, Bb).
First impressions: the D is very good (nice tone, very responsive, much less squeak-prone than my current-favorite Feadog D).
The Eb is bloomin’ marvelous - responsive, non-squeaky, very sweet voice. Neither the D or Eb required any tweeking.
The Bb, on the other hand, was very disappointing out of the box - buzzy, unstable, prone to drop out of the upper register. The head had a LOT of flash on both sides of the gap between windway and blade, while peering up the tube showed burrs at the join of tube and head. Changed radically after the usual tweeks - pulled the head, trimmed the flash, blue-tacked under the windway: now stable (though needs a bit more wind to stay in the upper register than the smaller whistles), no buzz, lovely tone. Wonderful for slow airs, but surprisingly nice for faster pieces like “The Boys of Blue Hill” and “Off to California”, too.
I may have lucked out, but out of 3 Generations, 2 were good out of the box and the third only required routine tweeking to make it very playable, too. This was mostly an experiment (getting as many keys as cheaply as possible), but I may order a few more to keep on hand as giveaways.
I’ll have to try a back-to-back shootout (Gen D’s vs Dixon D) when the rest of my current order arrives.
[ This Message was edited by: DCrom on 2003-01-31 14:19 ]
I’m a Generation fan,owning all available keys.I have an old style brass D which is fine,and well enough in tune for my ear,New Eb’s in brass and chrome(slippery),both only required slight tweaking.My old Bb needed the head cleaning up,and the blade lightly sanding to remove a ‘buzz’,but is now a very characterful whistle.The head of my brass F cracked under tweaking,but has been repaired with superglue.I have not attempted to tweak a chrome C which I have neglected (not really liking C whistles) previously,but I find it is now growing on me.folks either like 'em or loathe 'em- I suppose this is the ‘Generation Gap’!
Thanks Azalin, James, and yes you also Peter.
Azalin for bringing up “an interesting” subject
and James for reminding us all that anyone
playing any whistle whatsoever is not deserving
of contempt. And Peter for warning me about the
“Susato” haters in Ireland. I’m planning on taking
a short investigative trip to Ireland soon and have
now decided to be careful about revealing my
true identity. I’ll have to be very, very aware or
possibly risk a tar & feather. It will add a little
excitement to the trip…
I feel I just happened to get lucky..I bought a generation in every key when I was new, and when I got together with my band, we needed an F and I happened to have one that was good. If it ever does go belly up, I probably won’t waste time trying to find another ‘good one’, and instead buy something in F from a maker with known consitency.