So I received my Preshaw set that I discussed in another thread. I am impressed with the quality of the set and detail. Unfortunately I have fallen into despair and occasional self-loathing that appears to come with reed issues!
I am sure the issues of reeds has been flogged to death over the years. I have read through various threads but they seem reasonably complicated.
Firstly, the pipes were sent from 1/2 way around the world, literally (I’m in Australia). They took 3 weeks to arrive and no doubt sat in Singapore at the airport in 30 degrees heat and humidity before reaching me. Although packed extremely well the reed that was in the chanter had come loose and had been rattling around inside the head of the chanter the whole trip. I noticed it straight away and that the bridle had come loose (ie. it was applying no pressure to the reed). I put it in and noticed the reed was reasonably quiet and I could attain all notes, but regularly had trouble with the low E F and often G. The bottom D could also have some problems. What would happen? Simply a squeal or no air would pass through the reed. Despite knowing the phrase “don’t touch the _______ reed” I decided to, and moved the bridle up less than a mm which appeared to open the tip a little each time. I put it back in after each time I did this, the D and bottom notes became stronger and easier to attain. However, now they became out of tune, such as the E would become an F and the G was an A. I mucked around for the best part of 2 hours with no success. There was a second reed that came with the pipes, that was slightly larger and louder, but that had a similar problem (actually the opposite, the high notes were very out of tune).
I have some on and off initial experience with uilleann pipes over the years but now I am wanting to learn them properly . I have experience only with instruments that don’t have reeds (and yes I’ve gone straight to a folk instrument with handmade reeds!).
Does anyone have any helpful advice/tips? Unfortunately the bridles on the reeds are now a bit loose from moving them.
If the reed was loose inside the windcap when you received the pipes and you have tried adjusting the bridle, you can try adjusting the seating of the reed, that is how far into the chanter throat you insert the reed. Do this by adding thread/hemp to the staple to seat the reed higher in the chanter throat which should flatten the notes, or removing a little of the existing thread to seat the reed further into the chanter throat which will sharpen the notes.
Try and get the A note sounding at 440 and then see where your bottom D and top d are pitchwise. Then try moving the bridle a little, up or down, just tiny micro movements, much less than a millimeter can make a considerable difference in pitch, sound, and ease of playing. Don’t attempt this when you are tired, hungry or angry. Take a break.
Also the reed will need some days to settle in the new climate so be prepared to make adjustments during this period. Get the A right and let the reed lips be open just enough so that that the reed is easy to blow and you are not straining to make the reed sound. You’ll need a lot of patience but don’t give up.
This is all part of the piping experience, accept it, it does get easier as you become more experienced. Just be careful removing and replacing the wind cap so you don’t damage the reed lips, it’s easily done. Don’t scrape or sand the reeds, Squeeze the bridle very carefully, so as not to crack the reed, at the sides if it is too loose. You can also put a tiny bit of blue tac or wind some thread behind the bridle to stop it from sliding or vibrating down towards the staple when being played. I’m sure just making adjustments using the bridle and seating the reed will be enough. Martin makes good stuff.
I highly recommend getting in front of an experienced piper. I have a really good chanter with a really good reed and a very poor operator of the set. So the intonation problems (that can be drastic at times) have more to do with my elbow-breathing than the instrument. I work with a tuner often as well. And every note of the chanter is capable of sounding in tune if I concentrate on proper airflow. I also work by ear with Eskin’s app for drones. Again, bottom line, the intonation problem is me. An experienced piper can help you get very quickly to what is a technique problem versus an equipment problem.
No kidding!
When I got my practice set I couldn’t get it to play well, and I bought two reeds.
It had to be the reed, right?
But, when I got with a teacher he sounded GREAT on it, and after he gave it a couple of small adjustments its been good for me since.
Were abouts in Oz are you?
Everything Steampacket said. The chanters I’ve gotten seem to take about two weeks to a month to settle into their new environments; I had one take about six weeks.
Like Steampacket said, it does take some experimenting to get the combination of reed seating and bridle position just right. I don’t know if this is the way it works for everyone, but in my experience:
I start with getting the reed/staple position about right for a reasonably solid, in-tune (or a tiny bit sharp b/c you can always rush the bell note) bottom D and then work from there, moving on to getting the A in tune. {Again, this is only my experience but I feel like changing the bridle is really more about affecting tone and playability than tuning (though it does change tuning, especially if you blow the thing wide open!).} So I like to start with the overall reed position and then work on getting the tone I want with the bridle. As a general rule of thumb, setting the staple higher should flatten the chanter overall, and pushing it farther into the reed seat should sharpen it.
Make sure you don’t have any leaks at the reed seat – as Steampacket described, a bit of hemp or even finer thread can help there. If the reed & staple pull out of the chanter crazy-easily, a little more thread might be in order (think of it as that old packing or wadding around a plumbing fitting – like that packing, thread or hemp compress over time and with the weather. A leaking reed seat makes for a chanter that’s much harder to play! Also, if the windcap is loose (if you’re in a dry place your chanter can dry out and shrink) that can mean leakage too, so check your hemp/thread situation there, too. Oh, and if you’ve got keys, make sure those aren’t leaking, either.
As for the bridle, as Steampacket noted, a tiny bit of blu-tack or something (I’ve used beeswax and it works well) to one side of the reed can help hold a loose bridle in place (your reed may have dried out a bit, too?). It does sound like your bridle is doing what it’s supposed to do, however, so that’s good news! But again, I like to get the entire reed & staple position generally sorted before I start in on the bridle. I seem to have the best luck when I get the bottom D fairly solid and then work from there, moving the entire staple up and down a bit in the chanter and using hemp to make sure there’s no leakage. When I get the bottom D and back D within reasonable hailing distance of one another (usually to where the back D is a bit sharp), I leave as is for a while and flatten the back D with a piece of tape over the top third or half of the thumbhole. Often I find I can fine-tune things in a few days but it seems to be better to go slow.
Play for 15 minutes and see what happens! Then come back tomorrow and do it again.
Email Martin & ask him what he thinks! (Actually, that should probably be Point 1)
Good luck, and congratulations. You’ll be fine. Just make tiny changes and give the thing time to adjust between. I once heard someone say not to touch anything until you’ve been playing for about 15 minutes, and I’ve found that to be a good general rule. (It’s actually made me early for gigs anymore, so there’s a side benefit to that one!)
Martin is responsive by email or phone, though I think he is away this week. Do ask directly.
Yes-- it sounds like a combination of bridal position, and staple seating in the V neck of the throat. If there is no damage to the reeds why replace-- you will need to learn to adjust bridals sooner or later, and why not start now?
In my experience with quite a few of Martins chanters, they don’t need rushing, though I tend to have to tape the “E” a bit to flatten, and I believe that is intentional.
Ask him to send along optimal measurements for the reed. Then, if these reed can’t be adjusted or revived (though it sound like just an adjustment issue), you have the template and can attempt to find someone local who can make reeds to those specs, (or better try it yourself). Martin’s chanters are not difficult to reed compared to some other makers. They use the straight 5mm OD hobby tune for a staple, which you should be able to find locally.
I’ve had his reeds shipped many times from his shop in the north of Ireland to the dry desert southwestern US, and they mostly survive the trip and contrary what you would expect, play quite well. After a few weeks I scrape them a bit, with perhaps some 400 grit sand paper, as they usually arrive playing fairly hard, which is perhaps a good state for a reed to be in for world travels.
The D concert measurements that work for me are (confirm with Martin)
OAL about 82mm
5mm OD x 51mm OAL straight brass hobby tube staple
1" diameter cane (softer over harder)
Wine bottle shape
12mm width at lips
Sand insides on 70mm diameter block (big, but it seems to work better than smaller blocks, and Martin confirms)
I make a little tone chamber on each blade.
Scrape is about 28mm, V or U depending on the cane.
Scrape is a trident (with a good spine)
Copper wire bridle just below scrape, at about five turns. The traditional copper band works well too, and Martin uses those.
I am glad to say that it appears one of the reeds has decided to be cooperative somewhat. I used the marginally larger and louder reed that came with the set and I removed some of the twine so that it would sit in the throat further. I then adjusted the bridle down little by little.
I found that after a while the A was spot on, and the lower D strong. The back D was an E flat so I taped that and it brought it to a D. You were right hpinson, my E was playing as a F so I ended up having to tape almost half the hole to flatten it and it is now spot on (although a little quieter due to the taping). The other notes are spot on or very near. The only thing I am finding with this reed is that it takes a little bit more pressure for it to crow compared to the smaller reed, but then again it is louder.
We are transitioning into summer weather soon, the days at the moment are 25C and nights 10C, soon it will be around 32-35C and 20C nights, so I am sure I will be having to keep an eye on this reed. Stay tuned for more fun
By the way, yes Martin is away until 3rd Sep. I am going to get another reed to keep as a backup, so that’s a great idea about also getting the measurements. Thanks for that.
