I’ve deleted my posts. They were neither helpful nor encouraging. There’s nothing to see here - just move on 
Erik
[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-12-13 13:54 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-12-13 13:54 ]
Alex, It certainly does not take years to figure out if a flute responds the way you want it to respond.
Good point, Erik!
Jessie
Loren’s whistle advise is excellent, but don’t recommend flutes with a couple months under your belt, it takes years to build embouchure.
[ This Message was edited by: AlexDylan on 2001-12-17 09:43 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-12-13 13:54 ]
Gee Alex, what crawled up you ass and died?
First off, I’ve never claimed to be anything other than a relative beginner, having only a couple of years playing whistle and less than a year on the flute. In fact, I’ve stated publicly on the messsage board that I think my playing is rather shabby, perhaps in another 5 or 10 years it won’t be, who knows. However, I’ve certainly never claimed to be a particularly good or experienced player, and anyone who’s been around knows damn well that I’ve not made any false claims.
When I recommend flutes or whistles to people, including yourself - remember asking about Low F’s? - I generally don’t do so unsolicited. Regarding flutes, I often say things in my posts like “The Copley is a great flute for beginners”, or “The M&E is relatively easy to play” and how do I know that, because, as you so astutely pointed out Einstien; I am a beginner. This and the fact that I’ve had the opportuninty to play a number of flutes, including M&E, Dixon, Healy, Copley, Grinter, Olwell Cane, Hodgkinson Ceramic, Hoza, and a few others I forget at the moment, gives me the right to try to assist other people just starting out when they ask for help. You see, as a beginner, I have some idea which of these flutes is easy to play. You want to know how well a flute responds to fast ornamention and octave changes? Ask David Migoya, I don’t claim to be able to answer those quetions for people, and I don’t try. I do sometimes pass on what I’ve heard from experienced players, but I make that clear by saying “I’ve been told” or something to that effect.
When it comes to whistles, well, I’ve been fortunate enough to have played about 70 different whistles of a various of brands, so I can tell people how one compares to another. Very few people who post here have had that opportunity, so most find my comments valuable.
By the way, has it ever occurred to you, smart guy, that perhaps an expert flute player with great embouchure might not be the best person to judge which flutes would be easy for a beginner to play? Here’s a little something for you to think about:
A student of Skip Healy’s had one of Skip’s flutes but was having a heck of a time with it. Skip would pick up the flute and play it no problem, hand it back to the student and suggest more practice. Eventually, after much frustration and slow progress, the student finally convinced Skip to try working on the flute a little. Skip made a minor adjustment to the embouchure hole and Viola! The flute played, for both the student and Skip, like a dream. Really good players can get a great sound out of most flutes, but beginners want and need a flute that’s easy to play. But what do I know, right Alex?
You don’t like it when inexperienced people recommend instruments? How long had you been playing back on August 7th of this year when you posted an unsolicited review of your (then new) Copeland A whistle? Are you an expert with 10 or 20 years playing experience? I hope so because you rated your Copeland a “Perfect 10” in that review. By your own criteria anyone making such a bold statement should have many years of playing under their belt and be Seamus Freak’in Egan. You, I think, are not…which makes you a hypocrit.
Also, if the only people posting reviews and recommendations were folks with 10 years of playing experience, well, we’d have very few posts and all the C&F message boards would be dead. Or hadn’t you thought of that, Brainiac?
My final thoughts regarding you’re totally unprovoked attack:
Over the last two plus years, I’ve been a (mostly) positive, regular contributor to the C&F forums. I’ve given unselfishly of my time, energy, and experience (limited though it may be) to help others, both on and off the message boards. As far as I can tell, you haven’t helped anyone but yourself, so all that’s left for me to say is…
Bite me, loser.
Loren
Boom shaka ya! Another one bites the dust!
[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2001-12-13 11:37 ]
Loren, Boo Hoo Hoo, quit your crying
I’d respond but I don’t have the time. I’m not like other people who have posted 414 lengthy posts,
"Jack Coen observed that most of us opened the topmost tonehole when we played the high D, but said that it’s not necessary and just makes for more work. You can use the same fingering for the high D as the low D: all fingers down. I personally find that my flute “sings” a touch more fully if I open the top hole on the high D, but it would only be noticeable in slow tunes or airs. For dance music it doesn’t matter.
Thanks for the fun
[ This Message was edited by: AlexDylan on 2001-12-17 09:44 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-12-13 13:55 ]
I’ve edited this post because what Eric said made sense to me. Loren I admire and respect you. Thank you for your great contributions to this community. Eric, I thank you as well, and thank you for teaching me something good today.
Alex, I hope you feel better and may find something good to add to this board. I’m sorry for slamming you. I apologize. I think you owe Erik and Loren an apology as well.
Peace be with you,
Chris
[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2001-12-13 15:11 ]
Notice that there is no e-mail link for Alex. Porridges turn up all over the forums lately. This one, however, is not at all clever or entertaining.
Jessie
I have to say, I really enjoy the information, opinions, and insight posted by people from all different backgrounds and experience levels. Take 'em for what they are: opinions. Loren, keep spreading the good word!
An open apology:
After having a chance to pray and reflect on my post, I fear that I owe the group and Alex an apology. While I did want to say that I felt that the original post was inappropriate, I did not approach it in a gracious way. Alex, I apologize by provoking you with insults to your ability. I’m sure that you are a fine whistle and flute player, perhaps of many years, and it was unkind of me to goad you on.
And to the group, I apologize for adding fodder to the fire.
Sincerely,
Erik
Hi All:
Well, what a way to start my day! Interesting reading first thing in the morning…
A couple of thoughts: AlexDylan seems hostile to the point of being a put-on. Lillian Gish (who knew she would ever be referenced in an Irish whistle site?) once described melodrama as “emotion in excess of situation”, which seems to apply here.
However, if this is not a put-on, I’d like to take the opportunity to defend some of the fine people on this site.
Loren has consistently put forth opinions when asked about his experiences. He has always been the first to qualify his level of experience, when necessary, and has been helpful to both beginners and experienced musicians.
Erik, too, has been completely up front about his experience, and has still had the bravery to offer up what he has learned in a public forum.
Beginners, in particular, have been able to benefit from hearing from these gentlemen.
I have played flute professionally for close to 30 years, and have been able to glean some very helpful information from both Loren and Erik. I am new to Irish music, and value the input of these gentlemen.
This is a public board relating to Irish whistle. It is not strictly for professionals; it is a community based interest group. Opinions are taken in that light, and appreciated on every level.
All the best,
Mark Sackett
Beginners most certainly have the right to offer advice…
Here’s a common scenario.
Beginner A: I’ve been having a lot of trouble with XXXX, please help!
Beginner B: I, too, have struggled with XXXX, here’s how I worked though it…, hope that helps.
If nothing else, this thread has brought the flute forum to life today.
Cheers,
jb
[ This Message was edited by: brownja on 2001-12-13 20:09 ]
Gee,Erik, that’s real class. I’m impressed.
Whoever you prayed to, I wish more people
in this sad world would.
Alex D’s posting was silly, I thought.
What matters is not how long you’ve
played but whether you give good advice.
Loren has always given me good advice,
including about flutes, at least I think so
(which is what matters to me). I don’t
care where he gets it, from the crystal
people or his Aunt Tilly.
You say what you think, you make plain the level of your experience, and people make
a considered judgement about whether
to take what you say seriously–that’s
how people without much experience
can make recommendations.
Alex is hardly a silly person, so I
figure maybe he’s had a bad day? I
don’t know about Alex, but sometimes
people want to get kicked or to
have a scrap. They’re angry or
they want some intensity or…
It’s unhealthy–for them and for me–and I don’t want to oblige them. Though
heaven knows it’s easier for me now
than when I was young! I work in a
profession where I am often
in intense intellectual combat, and I’ve learned that whenever someone goes for me personally (a) I’ve won, and (b) I must immediately outclass them–not respond personally. Never out sass’em when
you can outclass 'em–is my motto.
I didn’t train my mind all these years
into something sharp so I could cut
people up with it. The stronger you get,
the kinder and more self controlled
you need to be, I believe.
Lennox Lewis doesn’t
go down to the local pub and pick
fights. I look back sometimes
in anguish at what I once did to
people with my tongue. So I’ve trained
myself to be kind–it’s easier
to do that in writing than face to face,
because there’s more time before
one must respond. It’s like practicing
anything else–sooner or later
it becomes second nature.
Many of the
people on this board are so smart
and articulate, and I hope you will consider this as an option–for what it’s worth.
My impression is that we’re already getting
kinder. Thanks again, Erik–made my day.
[ This Message was edited by: jim stone on 2001-12-13 15:09 ]
Oops. Double clicked. The philosopher
from Mars strikes again!
[ This Message was edited by: jim stone on 2001-12-13 15:02 ]
FWIW - although I have played whistle for more than 30 years - and lived in Ireland for most of those years - I knew very little about the whistle or the flute, relatively speaking, until I started learning from the fine folk on this board.
People like Loren, Erik, Chris, Jessie, Phil etc. give of their time, knowledge and information freely, and I for one appreciate it. I may not always agree with everything they write or say, but I definitely respect their right to say it. We may even poke shots at each other now and again but this type of attack is unwarranted and uncalled for IMO.
Boneheads like AlexDylan will always pop up now and again trying to show the world how great they are by putting down others, but they’ll go away if you ignore them.
Cheers
Gerry
No email or profile for Alex? I say ignore the schmuck. I appreciate posts from the experienced and beginner, each has his/her own to contribute. Let’s move on.
Tots
Just a few more cents worth… as a brand new player, I have to say that, in particular, Loren and Erik have graciously taken their time to be incredibly helpful to me as far as how to best practice, flute choices, and evaluating my playing. The almost immediate improvement that I’ve noticed by following their advice has sometimes been my main motivation for continuing to keep trying…as possibly the most senior brand new flute player on this list (maybe in the hemisphere), I’m really pushin to make progress as rapidly as possible since I’d like to be able to play fairly decently at least for a while before I have to start using the instrument as a cane… and I have to say that people’s ideas on this list all help me in one way or another, from beginner to pro. So, IMHO whats his name’s comments here are full of chiff..
Tod Barry
Care Management Director
Children’s Hospital Los Angeles