Hello all,
Well, I am learning more than I ever thought possible, and starting to wonder if its more than I wanted to know. (Ahhhhhhhh…) Ok, now that I’ve got that out of my system, on to business. 
I need some info on closed as opposed to open fingering. I think I get the actual mechanics of the two, (emphasis on the word think (geez, with this instrument what isn’t an “if” or a “think”!) but I would like to hear good examples of both. Is it possible to tell the difference between the two fingerings just by listening? Can anyone recommend examples of open and closed fingerings, so I can hear the differences between the two?
Thanks,
S. K. Cull
For great tight piping, try Mick Coyne’s site- both himself and Andy Conroy are great exponents of a tight style:
http://www.mickcoyne.moonfruit.com/welcome
Mick O’Brien and John McSherry are two who strike me as more of the open, flowing style of piping. I’d think of Brian McNamara as one who is more of the closed or tight fingering style. There are others (older generation) who were especially gifted at this…
That young fella James Mahon on The Bloom of Youth described his piping as tight, but I wouldn’t have described it as especially tight. Great piping nonetheless.
What about Paddy Keenen? And Lunasa’s Cilliann Vallely?
I’d tend to call both Paddy and Cillian fairly open and loose in their piping.
Those could be fighting words there buddy. 
It’s true! LOL Well, let’s just say they’re ‘tight’ ain’t gonna score any of us major brownie points either. We poor pipers just can’t win. What a sorry lot we are! ROTFLOL 
Now now lads, let’s not give Dale another excuse to call use surly. 
what about Robbie Hannan?
Robbie does a lot of very well executed tight stuff. That said, “tight style” is not the first thing that comes to mind when listening to Robbie.
Any excellent player is likely to play a mix of “tight” and “open” - even Andy had to keep -er open in the top of the second octave
See for instance in Johnny Doran’s playing (usually cited as the all time master of the ‘open’ travelling style) lots of tight triplets adding contrast to the overally rolling flow.
I would suggest Leo Rowsome for open playing. He does ornaments, of course, but he is mostly an open player with very little of the pippity-pippity stuff that characterizes pure closed playing like Andy Conroy.
djm
Brian Lee:
I’d tend to call both Paddy and Cillian fairly open and loose in their piping.
I haven’t had the pleasure to watch or listen to Paddy, but Cillian on the other hand I listen to about everyday and although it probably goes against everything being taught, he tends to use open fingering, very loose (grace notes everywhere..LOL).
Although I am trying to go with the traditional and the most common technique for fingering in the discipline of the UPs…I find myself going against the grain and using open…I also find myself playing off my knee from time to time…so there… 
I have found with my experience not only with Ups, but wioth most things that techniques which work for oneperson may not work for another and forcing yourself to conform doesn’t make one want to learn, but walk away…its my opinion that we are all different by design so with that said, I tend to go my own direction and learn and play in my own way which works for me. To me its not the wrong or right way, but its what works and I know I will get some criticism from the traditionalist, but like many of us we ted to freelance especially when it comes to playing because its away in my mind of that desired free expression and to show one’s individual talents.
Just a thought…
KDM, that is my tendency also, but the reality is that this is just laziness. It limits my capabilities. I know that when I hit these impossible to play bits that these are the ones I need to concentrate most on. I may not like to listen to the pippity-pip style of playing, but I also know that I can’t do it well, yet. “Freedom of expression” is a crock if you are using it as an excuse not to learn the tough stuff. You are not truly free unless you can play both open and closed techniques perfectly, but then “choose” to play open. The difference is huge.
djm
I think this is a pretty good perspective from Bill. I think the ability to play tight is important even if your overall musical style tends more towards open. The UPs are one of the few pipes that are capable of this kind of variety - it seems to be an inherent part of music and the instrument.
Tight fingering is one of the things I found really difficult to get to grips with coming from other wind instruments. To me it felt mentally backwards (no insult intended) since you are thinking more about what finger to remove rather than which to place down. Once I got past that it all became (a little) easier although it took me way longer than I expected.
For KDMARTINKY, if you persevere you’ll get there. BTW, if you are still interested in taking up the Northumbrian smallpipes, they are completely tight. You have to cover all holes and notes are played by lifting one finger or pressing one key only.
Simonknight…I saw lastnight when that there was three days left and no bids. I have been told by a very reliable source that it would be a good set to get, but something deep inside screams…STAY WITH THE UPs!..
DJM…I agree that it could be laziness, but it could be just a preference to learn oneway vs. the other…
Keith,
stick with the UPs. Really, you gotta give them more than just a couple of months. They aren’t an easy instrument to learn, but once you start ‘getting it’, and after a few lessons with an experienced piper (Glands isn’t really too far away, man) you will be so glad that you did stick with them.
Instead of humming and hawing about which instrument you want to play, get off the computer and get out to a tionol or another piper’s place or meet them 1/2 way from where they live and your house, and get down to the brass tacks of learning them. They won’t play for you without a good amount of ‘sweat equity’ invested into them, no instrument will. I feel that part of your fence sitting comes as a result of having success with learning other instruments fairly easily, and now that you are face to face with the pipes, you find them difficult, and as a result you are now stumped. Get over that wall, practice 'til either your fingers or your ears are bleeding. Just do it man!
Oh yeah, forget about open or closed playing for now, that can be dealt with at a much later date. For now, just make lots of noise.
My feedback was just the result of my research, nothing more - a few negatives on Burleigh’s pipes. I’m now on the Say’s wait list for an F+ set. Burleigh’s sets are a good price and if it has been rebuilt well, they could be better than new. The terms of the auction are also pretty good.
I’m not finding it confusing playing the NSP’s as well as UPs. The finger holes are smaller and closer together, the bag pressure is less requiring some more elbow precision, and the fingering is tight with a G rather than D based scale, but I find they do help my technique overall. (it needs it)
Plus I can play them late at night without annoying the family.
On the subject of tight fingering, as another relative beginner I would advise you to learn the tight fingerings as well as open so you can execute triplets etc, even if your overall preference is for a more open style. DJM and Joseph E. Smith’s comments seem hard but they’re right. The pipes are tough. I came to them as a very experienced woodwind player and quite honestly was humbled by them. Until I could really make a good investment of time in practicing I didn’t get very far. But it is really worth it when you hear yourself starting to get it!
Just my 2c.
I’m not trying to come down on you Keith, but perhaps help you focus on your… erm… eh… focus.
Joseph: I blame Glands for my back and forth movements towards and away from the UPs. I had never even heard of the NPs until he pulled the beautiful set out and played me some. IT’s ALL HIS FAULT…
I do understand where all of you are coming from and I have learned to take most of it light-heartedly so please continue to hammer me from time to time.
In regards to the original portion of the thread, Joseph I tend to do a little of both open and closed fingering…but mostly I do what I feel and go with it…just trying to have a good time as my German Shepard howls at my playing and as the Geese begin to surround the pond.
Everyone here has heard the saying “You only get out of it what you are willing to put in it”…aw so true when it comes to the UPs…so true indeedy… I do agree with everything you have said Joseph.
but,
One day though I will have to break out the $$$ and get a set of NPs and I can always blame GLANDS…