question for the pipemakers

Uilleann Pipes
1

hiya all

i was just thinking about the machining that could go into pipemaking… i myself am a baby machinist (still quite new to the trade… ie, in school) and i was curious what kind of tolerances people work to when making pipes… esp. reamers and the like.

also, how do pipemakers (with metal lathes) machine said reamers? it strikes me that 15-20" of .500" stock would flex rather drastically while hanging out of a lathe’s headstock. also it seems that due to the tapered nature of a reamer that a steady rest might be tricky to rig up. do you just have an inch or the like hanging out of the chuck at a time and machine in small steps? or is it not as tricky to rig up the steady rest as i envision?

i’m not looking to take up pipemaking anytime soon… i just can’t resist thinking about machining challenges.

also, am i alone in thinking that it would be awesome if paris hilton’s chihuahua got eaten by a python? it could even be a reality tv moment. she walks into a room where there’s a decently large python with a lapdog-shaped lump in it’s midsection? or you could substitute really any of those celebs that carry around those rat-sized canines…

good times…

mark

2

reading another thread, i had another question and just posted there… then thought it might be more appropriate under this subject… so here goes…

and he quothe (sp?)

ye olde marke

3

I use a variety of different reamers that has built up over the years.

These include a couple of bayonets one cruciform the other triangular - both have been reground. A half round which is used for Bass and Double Bass regulators and the main D chanter reamer which is conical with a quarter section milled out.

I also use a number of rectangular reamers made from flat stock steel.

To make the conical reamers the tailstock was set over - fine cuts with a frequently sharpened tool bit are necessary especially in the central section where it will tend to whip. The quarter section was milled out in the lathe using a milling spindle mounted in the top slide.

The check the taper on the conical reamers is easy enough using a vernier caliper - for the Bayonets I made up several gauges with suitable holes that could be slipped over to check the diameter at various points

Trevor Robinsons book “The Amateur Woodind Instrument Maker” has some instructions for making reamers. For those not familiar with the book it covers several early woodwind and brass instruments

For Bayonets check out antique dealers but beware modern reproductions as the steel will not be as good. Some will have “war department” markings which may be a sign of authenticity.

Have details of a couple of O’Mealy’s reamers and these are square section.

The stamps I use for my instruments are heated before use.

Chris

4

hi chris,

so on the lathe, you were able to just mount it up and cut it? i’ve turned stock a little over .5" in diameter that was shorter than a chanter reamer would be and even with light cuts, the stock flexed too much to cut with any real accuracy or a finish that was at all acceptable… perhaps my tool geometry left something to be desired… i don’t remember it was a while ago.

are calipers generally the measurement tool of choice then? i take that to mean tolerances aren’t really very tight… not that i find that surprising… the end product being of wood and all.

thanks for the answer, by the way. interesting reading.

mark

5

Mark

The important part of the post was “frequently sharpened tool bits” - do not let them get blunt.

Vernier calipers are read to a high degree of accuracy. I also use a caliper with a dial gauge that reads out thou’s of an inch. Tolerances are tight hence the use of gauges which are made by using parallel reamers.

Yes the work will flex and it is necessary to take a lot of cuts just on the central section to even things up. I know one pipemaker (no longer with us and not DW) who used a file with the lathe running at high speed to even out his conical reamers (not recomended).

My lathe is a Boxford AUD metal turning lathe which has a wide range of speeds up to 2800rpm. Basically it is same as the US Southbend and can be used both for metal turning and for wood turning. Although no longer made accesories are still available both from Boxford’s and G & M Machine tools (Sussex U.K.) and include wood turning rests, vertical slides, gear wheels etc.

Milling spindles for mounting in the tool post are available from model engineering suppliers and are extremely useful and add yet more versatility to the lathe. In conjunction with an indexing device they are ideal for drilling the tone holes in the chanter and regulators as well as milling out the key slots.

Chris

Edited for typo’s

6

m’kay that all makes sense. um… basically all i meant by the comment about calipers is that calipers aren’t the measuring tool of choice if you’re talking about tight tolerances. if i wanted to measure the diameters on a reamer to accuracies of a thou, i’d use a blade micrometer. i’ve seen calipers flex more than .001". the vernier on a mic will accurately discriminate to tenths (.0001).

this is fun, i’ve not been able to talk shop outside of the shop yet. :slight_smile:

cheers
mark

7

i suppose i should clarify… i understand that pipemakers probably don’t have to think in terms of tenths. i was mainly curious about just how tight the tolerances are for the makers.

what i’ll pull away from the this conversation then is that the tolerances are such that calipers will suffice.

and also, to clarify further, when i think of tight tolerances i think of a few tenths. and to avoid sounding elitist, i, myself, haven’t yet worked to such tight tolerances. :slight_smile:



i can’t wait to get my chanter… then i won’t have to spend so much time on the internet.

mark

8

Mark, being in machinist school, you’re in the golden opportunity to make your own tool’s now. Frequently, shop instructor’s will let you work on your own project’s if they illustrate the machining principle’s they want you to learn. Why not consider making your own reamer now, even if there’s only a remote chance you’ll use it in the distant future? Heck…you might even have access to a tool & cutter grinder! Whoo-hoo! :thumbsup:
I’ve made three at home for my own personal use…why not buy some O-1 and take a whack at it? :slight_smile:
http://bagpipereamers.4t.com/

9

…YES!!! Go for it!! :slight_smile:

10

If you are interested… Na Piobaire Uilleann Sells a CD called the
“Sean Reid Society Journal.” Volume two has a nice article on a method of making reamers using a metal working lathe.

-Dirk

11

Hey John,

Great website-in-progress, Keep it up. This sort of info is just what I need.

Cheers,

DavidG

12

Probably :boggle:

ye should take Johann’s advice about making a reamer at school…perfect opportunity…(make 2 and sell the other one that would help pay for the chanter…in fact make lots and pay for a set??? :astonished: )
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

13

hallo everyone.

i could indeed make some reamers at school. hell, i’ve got access to autocad and mastercam… i could make a program that does all the work for me! :smiley: i love me some cnc equiptment.

i was thinking about making a reamer or two according to the measurements that good mr. childress posted a while back. also i’d looked into the sean reid society cds… haven’t purchased as yet, because i’m short on cash for the next while. i’ll probably pick it up before too long, despite that though.

i didn’t want to seem presumptuous and decide to build a set of pipes. after all i’m not yet a piper. but i should have my chanter from greenwood pipes before too long. the last time i talked to david, he was thinking it’d be done in january sometime.

however, i am the kind of person that enrolls in tool and die school, so i’m a little obsessed with finding out how things go together and work, etc. so i have been reading whatever i can get my hands on that answers those sorts of questions.

i found the site http://bagpipereamers.4t.com/ a few weeks ago and found it to be enjoyable reading, discussing some of the problems i’d thought of for the machining of the reamers.

and yes indeed, we do have a tool and cutter grinder. truth be told, when i walked around the shop for the first time, my first thought on seeing the t&c grinder was, “…hmmm… reamers…” :smiley:


but yeah, you are all right about this presenting a perfect opportunity for making the tooling… i’ll almost certainly try my hand at it. after all, we’ve got some pretty nice lathes, some heat treating ovens (i’m learning how to do that this semester… good times), cutter sharpening tools, the software to draw it all out nice like… and a lot of tool steel laying around. most of it is A-2. but i think we’ve got some other kinds that were donated to the school. the problem with that is we’re not sure exactly what kind of steel the donations are.

alright, enough of my blather.

mark the destructor

ps, it would too be awesome if celebrity lapdogs became snake food… don’t question it!

:smiley:

14

Just a wee story, not to be discouraging but…

Part I A fellow came up to me at Milwaukie Irish Fest about 20 years ago introducing himself as a master machinist in the auto industry and that he could make anything out of anything and would be happy to make reamers or whatever for me if I’d supply the specs. I quickly followed up and waited…for two years until he called up and said he couldnt do it. They were just to damned long and thin.

Part II I later learned of another guy who routinely and successfully made reamers for woodwinds. I commissioned him to make a 1/4 milled reamers, for flat chanters and regs. After a while he called me saying it was done and not to tell anybody that he does this because it was a royal pain. When it arrived it was beautiful.

The moral: go for it but learn what you can from folks who know their stuff about making woodwind reamers that are that long and thin AND accurate.

Good luck!

Tim

15

hey thanks for the anecdote, tim.


i knew there’d be some huge big irritations involved in making reamers. that’s a large part of why i post this question to C&F. i figured there’d have to be someone that’s done it here on the forum. plus, i was just curious how people have overcome the difficulties inherent in turning such a long thin piece of steel with any accuracy.

cheers
mark

16

…just wondering out loud here. I saw a rather complex follower rest for turning taper’s on the US Patent Office website, …a probe on one side of the workpiece controlling the amount of taper of the rest on the other. I wonder if making a double roller bearing rest that used spring pressure, …maybe a small die spring with a washer & screw adjustment for tension, slightly leading the tool & carriage would work? It wouldn’t affect deflection near the head or tailstock, where it’s supported…right?..only in the chatter prone flexible center…and if it was adjustable, over compensation could be minimized. Hmmmmmm? Dunno dunno. It would be a helluva lot safer than trying to dampen a screaming workpiece with a 2 x 4. LOL

17

I dunno about the Python part. Seems to me that in order for the shock value to Ms. Hilton (and I use the Ms. quite loosely), to be appropriately high, she would need to see her beloved pet before, during and after the ingestion process. Personally, I am more in favor of retro-fitting a football to contain the canine and then using this “dogball” during the Superbowl. Fun and hilarity would ensue as Paris uses her opera glasses to look at the field when she notices the head of her chihuahua poking out of one end of the football.

I’m sorry… maybe I gave too much thought to this. Now off you go, back to the substantive content of this topic.

Peace!
Reepicheep

18

:smiley: :smiley:

i think that kickoffs would be particularly hard for ms. hilton.

bear in mind, i don’t wish the dog any real harm… unless you consider thinking along these lines to be wishing the dog harm… in that case, i guess i do. ah well. :devil:

a football flying around with a chihuahua’s nervous little head sticking out… now that’s a funny picture.

mark