I have only recently begun playing the whistle- a Dixon D- and I’m having a blast- am working my way through the Och’s Whistle Book plus playing tunes I know from playing the fiddle. What I am having trouble grasping is the idea of transposing. Fiddles don’t do anything of the sort. I don’t really understand the concept- have read the short description in the whistle book I have and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, so I’m hoping someone else can explain it better or point me in the right direction.
It seems to me that what he is saying is that you can finger any whistle the same way?? But if you used a C whistle- all holes covered should be a “C” no??- not a “D”- or am I not correct? So how would this be the same fingering?
At present I am confining myself to just this whistle but I can already tell that I am going to want to have other whistles to play tunes that don’t lend themselves to a D whistle but am unclear as to how the fingering would work for these. Appreciate any advice here.
Say you play a tune written in the key of D major on your D whistle.
Then all notes come out correctly as written.
But if you now pick up a C whistle (six holes covered plays C, not D), and play the tune exactly with the same fingers as before on your D whistle, then the tune comes out one whole note below what is written. You automatically transposed the tune into C major, even though you are reading the D major score.
On the other hand, if you have a tune written in C major, then you could rewrite it into D major, every note one whole note higher. You have now a transposed score of the tune. If you play this now on your D whistle, you play the tune one note higher (transposed to D). But if you play it with your C whistle as if it is your D whistle, you are playing the tune in C major as written originally, but from a transposed score.
The advantage in this is that you don’t need to learn to read music for the C whistle, but can stick to what you know for the D whistle. This is often an easier start to play tunes in other keys. But in the long run you might like to learn to read music for the C whistle directly, without having to rewrite it first.
I still don’t get it- why would I want to do this? If I played a tune written in D on a C whistle- it would come out with different notes?? What would be the advantage of playing it on a different whistle anyway? I sort of assumed that maybe other whistles had ways to play different sharps or flats and such and that would be why you used them but this doesn’t make sense to me.
yes, it would come out with all notes one tone below:
First octave
D whistle from fully closed up: D E F# G A B C# D'
C whistle from fully closed up: C D E F G A B C'
The advantage of playing a C whistle is that you can easily play in keys of C and F,
just as on the D whistle you play easiest in keys of D and G.
any other keys need half holing.
The advantage of playing by reading a transposed score (transposed from C to D) is that you can simply pretend to play your D whistle, while you actually play your C whistle, and the music is in C. You don’t need to train yourself that “all six holes covered” on a C whistle will produce C etc. up the octave. You play just like on your D whistle, pretending your C is a D whistle.
The disadvantage is that you need to read from a transposed score, which you may need to create first. You can avoid this by learning to read music for each different whistle you use, and then, if a tune is in key of C or F for example, you just pick up the C whistle and play it.
If you can play a tune on a D whistle, then the fingering for that tune applys for every other whistle. If for example you are playing with a singer who is singing a song you play in the key of D, but the singer sings it in Eb/B/C/whatever, then changing to the appropriate key ofwhistle and playing it as if it was a D whistle means you can play along with the singer.
Most whistles have just six finger holes.
For all whistles with six finger holes the lowest note you play (all six holes covered) produces the note the whistle is build for:
D for a D whistle, C for a C whistle etc.
All whistles with six finger holes share the same interval structure, which produces a major scale from the lowest note upwards.
“Same fingering” means using the same fingers.
Six fingers will always produce the base note (tonic) of the whistle’s major scale.
The first two fingers will produce the fifth above the base note.
Three fingers produce the fourth, etc for all the fingerings one uses.
“Same fingering” does not mean that you produce the same notes when playing a different whistle. But you can just play the same tune in the same way. It is still the same tune, but it comes out in a different key. It comes out “transposed”.
This is not very useful if you play with other people (who do not transpose).
But, as I said, it gives you the chance to play from a transposed score pretending you play on your D whistle, and play in tune with others playing in a different key.
Ah-now I am starting to get it(emoticon for light bulb turning on!). It seemed to me that if you played a D on the C whistle as you did on the D whistle-you’d get a C-but if you played with other people- such as fiddles- that would sound very odd. You have confirmed that would be the case- I was confused as I didn’t see how it would be othrwise and thus didn’t see the advantage of it.
So in other words, you would need to transpose the score one full step from a D to a C and then play the transposed score in this instance- in order to play it with others and not sound weird??
If this is so, wouldn’t it be easier to just half-hole one whistle- say a D one- and forget about using other whistles? And in order to play say a low C, if you had a low D whistle-would that cover that as well?
I appreciate your help here very much- with fiddle there is no such concept as transposing so I was feeling pretty confused over this.
Yes. Transpose a tune written in key of C one whole tone (two semitones) up to key of D, then play it on your C whistle as if you play on a d whistle, in order to play along with others playing the music from the original C notation.
If you use abc notation, your abc software could do the transposing easily for you.
You could play in C major on a D whistle, if you half hole the fifth hole, playing an F natural instead of F#, and a forked C natural. But you miss a bottom C. So if the tune needs it, you need to fake it, play a different note… or get a custom whistle with D tuning and an extra hole for the right pinky for C below… or play very high on a low D whistle…
Half-holing F natural is not too hard. Half holing some other notes can be much trickier, and it may be much easier to use a different whistle. The whole tune may also fall better on a different whistle, you only got two octaves and perhaps one or two extra notes in the third octave.
And David’s advice is very valid, for playing along with a singer who automatically transposed the tune to a key which best fits her/him. You might need and appreciate some whistles in different keys. C and Bb are the most common besides D whistles.
In some places you got “Eb sessions”: fiddlers tune their fiddles up a semi tone and play all the tunes in D and G in Eb and Ab! That is transposing too
things with holes have special issues
whistles are not chromatic
even with an 8key flute
there are things that are more difficult at certain places on the scale,
not to mention playing across the break
I have never been to an Eb session, but I’ve run into a few recordings that I might call “Eb recordings” – Mulcahy Family and Dervish come to mind, if memory serves. So an Eb whistle comes in handy if you’re trying to play along with such recordings, even though the tune in question might be a “D tune” ordinarily.
Sure they do, but you might not have run into it. On a fiddle, it’s an easy thing to move over a string, and start a tune on the A string rather than the D string; that magically drops the key of the tune you’re playing by a fifth. If you were playing with a whistle player who either knew the tune in a different key (common, for many ‘beginners’ tunes) or had a whistle in A but not D, you’d be able to play in the same key.
As well, a great many ‘source’ fiddle players* rarely or never played with others, and never tuned to a tuning fork or tuner. Their fiddles, in consequence, could be in any key or none. When recordings are transcribed, it’s conventional to notate them as if they were playing fiddles in standard tuning. As well, some fiddle traditions used variant tunings, just as guitar players sometimes do. AEAE and ADAE are common variants. These are sometimes also transcribed according to the fingering rather than the pitch, with a note added to the score that explains that all the first string notes will sound one note higher than written.
*I believe the Donegal fiddle tradition frequently preferred the ‘dark’ sound of low-tuned fiddle, so many of the recordings of Johnny Doherty are lower than they are commonly transcribed.
Right idea, but you have to move from the D string to the G string to drop the pitch a fifth. Moving from D to the A string raises it a fifth. (I’m assuming standard GDAE tuning here.)
Most tunes are in the key of D or G, or the relative minors, but everynow and again you get one in a different key, like C, if you were playing the fiddle, then your fine, just remember there are no sharps or flats, but with the whistle its not chromatic and harder to play in a different key it was not meant for, and so its usually easier to have a whislte in that key so that you dont have to think as much.
Right you are; I decided to change my example from lower to higher on the fly, and missed that. I meant “Start your tunes on the D string instead of the A.”
OK- I guess one could consider that transposing on a fiddle- and I’ve done that without really thinking about it- or- doing “alternate tunings”- AEAE and such- but I don’t do that much as it doesn’t seem tpo really happen in any sessions I attend- I’ve never run into any other sort of fiddle playing that was mentioned- other than the ones out of tune
So- another ignorant question(I’m full of them you see)- but just what DOES a low whistle do- a low D for instance- would play what notes?? And is it possible to get a low “C” hole on a D whistle? Or would that be hard to figure out where to place it if one tried to do it oneself?? That would be so cool to have one of those I would think- would open up the tune options…
It is also possible, and done more often, to have a high C hole, as a thumb hole, placed between the first and second hole on the backside. This will give you a clean C natural, as an alternative to cross finger the C natural below first octave D.
The inventers (Finbar Furey & who?) of the low D whistle were looking for a way to play the same notes a flute does, but without having to learn a new embouchure.
The major scales that fall easily on a whistle are the scale that starts on it’s lowest note (D, for a D whistle) and one that starts on the fourth, which is able to use the 0XX000 (“C natural”) fingering for the missing note. So D whistles play D and G easily. If you get a whistle in A below that D, it’s comfort zone is in the keys of A (ie, it’s natural tonic) and D major (the scale that begins on the fourth ie, the XXX000 fingering). It’s my opinion that playing an A whistle is the easiest way to get a low C# or B into a whistle playing in D, but that’s not done nearly as often as I’d think.
Always feeling the lack of one or two more notes lower is just one of the realities of playing a wind instrument.
I am learning a great deal here-thanks all so much!
Hans- that Overton whistle looks gorgeous- I am seriously broke so I know I shouldn’t contemplate it but it might just spur me on to make some more $$, sell off some stuff, etc. I am concurrently learning to play the pipes- totally different fingering than the whistle which makes it “interesting”-only have a chanter- will eventually have a set of Border Pipes(hopefully they will be done in this lifetime) and the chanter on it will likewise have the C natural thumb hole to avoid half-holeing so I understand this concept actually(for a change).
This has spurred me on to try to find some people out here that either play whistles or want to so maybe we can get together and play and learn from each other- I find it amazing when some of the posts on this board mention being able to just go into a shop and sort through a bin of whistles and try them out- here the first whistle I bought- sight unseen, and which I hated- was a Clarke D - and I had to special order it from a music store here as they didn’t even have one in the store- after that I gave up and went online to order my Dixon. This area is fine for violin instruments and guitars and even mandolins but sure isn’t a whistle area I’d say which is probably why I don’t know people who play them or even get to see any up close, let alone try them out- so some of you are really lucky to live where you do if you’re into whistles… but maybe some whistle players are around here somewhere…
“same notes as the high D whistle, just an octave lower (it is double the body length).”
sorry-forgot this- but if it is the same notes as a high D and just an octave lower- wouldn’t that include low C and all??
