Never meant to imply you were being intentionally perverse – just that your sense of what is natural might be shaped by fiddling. Just as my sense is no doubt shaped by 20-some years of playing bassoon.
For the record, tonguing the start of an off-beat roll strikes me as even more odd, while slur-tongue-tongue makes sense to me, though I’m having a hard time catching myself actually doing it. I do tongue, mostly to occasionally accent a downbeat note, plus every now and then just to get the whistle to speak clearly for me.
I have to admit I spend basically no time listening to any of the whistle players you mention. These days I mostly listen to lots of older Sligo players, fiddling more than flute, though lots of Peter Horan. Plus an odd smattering of Newfoundland fiddle and “4-stop”. I don’t really think about technique much, just try to imitate the sounds I’m hearing. (I’m trying to catch the rhythm and feel, not the details of articulation.)
I think you run the risk of clipping the note too much there. The way I play it I’d slide up to a long Cnat AB c2 followed by a compressed near triplet run AB {c}BA {B}AG {EG}EG D or a punctuated cA{c}BG {EG}EG D where in both cases B gets a bit of tongueing
The slide(either a slide proper or bending into it by half holing) provides better emphasis I think than tongueing that note. I don’t know, whatever works for you.
And Inearly forgot the old one for after ; ‘Ah The Bank of ireland, there’s plenty of Notes in it’
Well exactly, that’s just how I learned. “Go away and listen and imitate what you hear” is always the best advice but people want help with specifics sometimes.
I think you guys are nuts. You make it sound like there is a right way to play, like only you know and everyone else is just wrong. I think you guys need to seriously lighten up. Come on! It’s folk music. Do what you like and have fun. :roll:
Thanks for tip, Peter! I have been listening a lot to a Paddy Canny record and he sure swoops up to notes in a delightful way. I have been coppin’ Poll Ha’Penny off of it. It has a prominent Cnat up front too, though he plays it as a sharp. Would seem to call for similar treatment as Bank.
By the way – I discovered tonight that I can play Steve’s pattern if I play it on bassoon. As in, I got a reel with a drone under my fingers and five seconds later I was successfully using the pairs pattern. I don’t know what weird mental block it is that stops me from playing it on whistle.
I agree with Bloomfield about the part that you guys are nuts. FWIW (I just figured out what those letters stand for :roll: ) I listen foremost to how a tune is phrased and work toward making my rendition do that. This is irrespective of when to tongue, cut, roll, whatever. Where does the tune flow, pause, stutter, exclaim, etc beyond the counted beat? Having that part in my head, I have all kinds of options toward that end. I can cut, roll, tongue a particular note (I don’t care whether it’s the down or the up beat or the beginning of the bar or the middle. I’d have to count on my fingers to figure that part out.) It’s all in the listening to how the tune moves. I might tongue or slur or belch those rocking notes as it pleases me and see what happens. If it offends my sensibilities or people wet themselves around me, I’ll do something else. Not only that, I’ll look for different ways to sound it out on the repeats.
My point, if I’m capable of articulating it, is the discussion is useful for looking at a way to make a specific sound at a specific spot, but, I’m suggesting an additional or alternative approach: start with the basic movement of the tune and do something to articulate that. (When I get my minidisc player back, I’ll post an example.)
The last part of this is, the phrasing should work out the same with or without ornamentation. Ornamentation, in my mind, should support the phrasing.
Tony
“Pedal note” is the term used for a note held or repeated while melody continues on other notes. As far as I know its a technical term that’s used throughout music, not just in certain genre.
In Gravel Walk I can manage the A pedal without too much effort as it mostly a change in breath pressure and some easy finger work. Later in the tune, with the Cnat pedal, if I take it at lesson speed I can get 'em in there, but at session speed I drop it out. My left hand fingers just aren’t that dexterous yet.
Another good tune with a pedal note phrase is Golden Keyboard.
Can someone tell me if it’s common to cut the “bounce” notes? I often hear those notes hit with either a cut or what sounds like the fingers coming down a fraction of a second after the breath, so it has a very percussive sound to it. I assume it’s being done intentionally, I like the percussive thing it gives to the rythm. Golden Keyboard is a good example and the only one of the tunes mentioned that I play. If the “bounce” are being cut, how do people commonly cut them? (I’m asking this at the risk of showing how ignorant I am.)
In general I would say that if the bounce notes are in the high octave while the ‘drone’ note is in the lower I wouldn’t cut the high ones, they are strong enough to make their point. That said I avoid that whole movement In the Golden Keyboard by playing a different run altogether the gBfBeB is a bit too bland for me, for the same reason I also avoid the most common version of Speed the Plough in favour of one that avoids the same movement.
In other situations like ~F2 AFBF I would cut the A and B, each with the note above it.
(3gfe fd ed works better on the pipes than on the whistle but it leaves the bounce notes in places, egfd ed reverses the first two notes and works quite well on both pipes and whistle. Listen to Noel HIll and Tony Linnane’s recording of the tune.
Carry on, carry on, slur across the beats.