Proof that Bush lied about Iraq - secret memo

Poststructural Pub
1

Well well well… look what they found – a secret memo that reveals Washington fixed the intelligence regarding terrorism and WMDs in Iraq. Of course we already knew that, but now it surfaces in the Sunday Times. This memo could be the evidence needed to impeach Bush. It could prove that he intentionally mislead Americans into the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

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The Sunday Times - Britain
May 01, 2005

The secret Downing Street memo

(You can read the full text of the memo by clicking the title above)

SECRET AND STRICTLY PERSONAL - UK EYES ONLY

DAVID MANNING
From: Matthew Rycroft
Date: 23 July 2002
S 195 /02

cc: Defence Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Attorney-General, Sir Richard Wilson, John Scarlett, Francis Richards, CDS, C, Jonathan Powell, Sally Morgan, Alastair Campbell

IRAQ: PRIME MINISTER’S MEETING, 23 JULY

Copy addressees and you met the Prime Minister on 23 July to discuss Iraq.

This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. It should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know its contents.

John Scarlett summarised the intelligence and latest JIC assessment. Saddam’s regime was tough and based on extreme fear. The only way to overthrow it was likely to be by massive military action. Saddam was worried and expected an attack, probably by air and land, but he was not convinced that it would be immediate or overwhelming. His regime expected their neighbours to line up with the US. Saddam knew that regular army morale was poor. Real support for Saddam among the public was probably narrowly based.

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime’s record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

I removed the full text in the interest of brevity because the thread is growing in length. What I have in bold above is the smoking gun. In the following post I include further analysis as to why.

2

Ladies and gentlemen, out of respect for those that enjoy this forum,
I have deleted my response.

It’s all so worthless to engage in anything re: this topic.

Please, go on, enjoy the topic about the dead Blue Jay, it’s far more enlightening, I assure you.

Sincerely,

IRTradRU?

3

Uh, TradR… that’s the date of the memo, not the date that it was uncovered. Look again and you’ll see May 1st 2005. If you click on the big blue letters it will go the the publication from that day.

But since you bring up the date the memo was written… Here’s something interesting from Juan Cole’s blog, “Informed Comment”:

He goes on to point out how the timing of this memo proves that George Bush didn’t have faulty intelligence as he claims. It proves that George Bush deliberately lied to the American people about the WMDs and terrorist connections with Saddam. No one can argue that Bush didn’t know better now.

Juan Cole is Professor of History at the University of Michigan. You can read the rest of his comments about this memo at his website: http://www.www.juancole.com

4

It’s interesting to see the conservative’s reactions. Here we have proof that Bush lied and they want to try and sweep it under the rug as quick as possible and hope everyone ignores it. They want to continue to claim that Bush was relying on faulty intelligence and didn’t mislead us intentionally, (or maybe TradR’s just in denial). Sorry TradR – the jig’s up – Bush lied and this memo prooves it.

5

I don’t think IRTradRU is “the conservative.”

That’s jim stone. :wink:

6

I think I might change my name to “The Conservative”. It has a nice ring to it. Either that or start a new TV show and use that for a name. I think it could catch on, what do you think, cran?

:stuck_out_tongue:

can you tell I’m bored today?

7

I can’t wait to see what Jim Stone and the rest have to say when they take a gander at this evidence.

I notice TradR is posting on every single thread in hopes of pushing this thread off the main page. :laughing:

8

I know this is going to sound obnoxious (although I’m not intending to be) but I really don’t understand WHY this is important news? The man is in office…he’s not going anywhere. Despite all the efforts of the liberal left wing, the conservative right wing got him another 4 years. He’s no different than any other politician in this country…lying isn’t a novel thing in politics and the GOP doesn’t have the market on it.
If we’re going to talk about ANYTHING, I think Mrs. Bush’s lovely comments about being a “Desperate Housewife” are far more interesting :wink:

9

Don’t you realize we’re talking about the president of the United States here? They aren’t supposed to lie to us. Clinton was impeached for lying about consensual sex with an intern. If it couldn’t have been proven he wouldn’t have been impeached. Now we have a president that has lied about WMDs and terrorist connections in Iraq and he led the nation into war, and unlike Clinton’s lie where no one was harmed – 100,000 people have died so far. Bush’s contention has been that the intelligence was faulty. This memo is proof that he not only lied, but intentionally fixed intelligence around the policy to invade Iraq. This is crucial, and thousands of people have suffered and lost their lives as a result. Now you’re telling me you find Mrs. Bush’s comments about “Desperate Housewives” more interesting. Am I supposed to take you seriously? Honestly!

10

You can take me seriously or not. You can say all you want that presidents aren’t SUPPOSED to lie, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t. They ALL do. And harping on it over and over again doesn’t do anything. What is this article going to change? Those that really and truly wanted to know the truth KNEW all of this way before now. Those that didn’t aren’t going to believe it anyway despite the fact that you posted it. I too grieve daily for all of the innocent men, women, and children that our president has allowed to be murdered for the sake of this war. But what is your posting and reposting this information going to do for them or for their families? I don’t see the logic in it. What are you trying to achieve by posting these articles continually? And honestly, you really need to lighten up a bit here…my “Desperate Housewife” quote was a attempt to lighten up this overdone subject. If you couldn’t see that, then you really need to get out more :stuck_out_tongue:

11

This hasn’t been posted before. This memo just came to light on the first of this month. It’s a major piece of new evidence that will help to prove Bush lied. The best way to help anyone involved is the exposing of the truth so that something will be done. This is an amazing time in our history and this event is pivotal. I’m posting this because it’s important and I think people will be interested.

I’m sorry. It looked to me like you were indifferent about Bush lying and the war he got us into. I do get out now and then, mostly for tunes at the pub, and we don’t just sit around and talk politics – too much… heh. I’m actually not as serious all the time as you might think from these posts.

12

Normally I don;t get into these threads but. . . I can;t believe that people want to blow this off. It shows our political priorities are skewed in the extreme.

100K+ deaths based on a lie. HOW CAN it get more important than that?

13

so… since they all probably lie, it’s OK for this one to lie… even for him to send our loved ones into a WAR that he got through based on those lies?.. I beg to differ on that.

He lied to intentionally mislead the nation into a personal vendetta and sacrificed our own people and dengrated our relationship with the rest of the world. That’s worth a whole lot of outrage from all who were duped - perhaps most especially those in his own party who tried desperately to support him and now try desperately to excuse him even though he slapped them in the face just as much as anyone.

In comparrison to the lies told by Bill clinton, where he denied having screwed one person, and we spent months and millions to prove it, Bush srews us all and is still defended? Surely you can see that’s a bit much to accept passively.

14

This article is dated May 1. It’s now May 7 and I haven’t heard one thing about it - newspapers, tv news, or CNN.com. Anybody else heard anything? White House reaction? Anything??

Susan

15

Well, the truth has finally come out!
And from the most trusted of all sources…the secret memo!
It must be true! (Or it wouldn’t have been posted in the Times.) :boggle:

16

If the administration ignores it, it just might go away. The press (generalizing wildly here) is cowed - first by the threat of being blasted for their liberal bias and second by people whose reaction will be like izzarina’s. Runaway brides and pop-star pedophiles are less controversial and bring in the readers/viewers.

All politicians lie. Actually, pretty much everybody lies one way or another. But when W lied about not having made a decision to go to war, he short-circuited the debate about reasons for war until sufficient evidence had been fabricated, sufficient blood-lust had been raised in the polity and it was too late for anyone to object without the chorus screaming “TRAITOR”.

Yeah we’re stuck with the Harvard slacker loadie until 2008, but if enough people get hip to what kind of shallow deceitful fool he is then maybe we can minimize the damage and there will still be a country (and a world) left when he is gone.

Roger

17

Notice, particularly, how well C. Montgomery Burns covered his own involvement in this Right Wing Republican conspiracy.

18

This is one of the scariest aspects of the excess of power that the Bush Administration utilizes. The White House, in cooperation with corporate media, can easily control what the majority of Americans believe. It’s a lot like the “official truth” in George Orwell’s “1984” if you think about it. The fact that something as important as this hasn’t seen the light of day in the corporate media should raise serious questions for anyone that believes in democracy. And this isn’t even the first time something like this has happened either. When you expand your information sources beyond the Iron Curtain of Ignorance that has been erected around the borders of this country you’ll find out just how much information doesn’t get presented.

19

It made it into the Globe and Mail, Canada’s national newspaper, which picked it up from the Times.

In the UK, the news has kina been buried by the election. I think that US media will treat it as a UK story unless forced to acknowlege it.

However, it really isn’t all that remarkable as far as the US’s intentions. As soon as Bush began moving troops to Kuwait, war became inevitable. There is no way that the US would deploy that many troops without using them–bringing them home would have been a massive loss of face.

And the US had begun their buildup months before this memo; and in order for that to happen, the orders and preparations must have happened months before that.

So common sense will tell you that Bush was lying about no decicion having been made.

20

Common sense (actually an oxymoron in this current US society) did tell many of us that he was doing just what he has been proven to have done, but there is the other half of the nation that wants him to be G_D’s gift to the world (literally!) and refuses to acknowledge that he lied. This is just another bit of proof that should make it clear that he is not actually above board or reproach, or acting in the genuine best interests of the nation as a whole … it probably will not be accepted as such though.

It is important that this be widely reported. It is indeed a crisis in the US… one of huge proportions actually.