why should Sam be working under the shadow of the hunter name?
Some would view it as the opposite…as being in the spotlight of the Hunder name, which is a motivation to stay there. I tried to buy the chanter that is the topic of this thread within minutes after it was posted, but the seller chose to sell to someone local. I would order a Hunter chanter today, except their order book is closed. I’ve tried to buy Hunter chanters offered for sale by individuals twice before this, and they were sold the first day they were listed for sale. The idea that they are made by someone other than Hunter himself makes no difference to me…they are made to his measurements, in his style and specifications, using the tooling and processes that Hunter developed over many years to produce a consistent high-end product. That the product will continue to be produced by his shop after he is gone is a testimonial to his success…not only was he able to make highly sought after instruments, he was able to build a shop and a system for producing them. Antonio Stradivari produced great instruments, but failed to create a shop that could continue after his departure, so Hunter has succeeded in one realm where Stradivari himself failed.
I’ve had my own business for 17 years, and to create an entity that will continue on without the founder is a greater achievement than most can imagine. It’s a LOT harder than it looks. I see plenty of reasons for Sam to continue to be a part of the Hunter business.
The closest I’ve been able to get thus far to owning a Hunter chanter is to order one from a maker who was trained by a maker who was trained by Hunter. My order was placed 3 months ago, and I’ve got little idea how much longer the wait will be, but hopefully just a few more months, and hopefully it will approach the standard set by Hunter.
I’ve tried to place orders from 4 other top makers, only to be told they were not able to take my order. I’ve now bought ‘previously owned’ chanters by Spillane, Ginsberg and a new chanter from another maker, I’ve got an experienced reed maker working with them, but so far nothing plays anywhere near as well as the Daye chanter I’ve got. I enquired about the Froment flat set recently offered, but at nearly $20k it was $4,000 more than I can afford right now. It’s blowing my mind how difficult it is to get a high end instrument.
but at nearly $20k it was $4,000 more than I can afford right now
That’s a massive amount of money but honestly I thought it would be worth more.
I couldn’t afford it myself and if I really wanted one I’d make one myself but I honestly thought a fantastic set like this from Alain Froment with no wait would go for closer to $30,000.
It’s blowing my mind how difficult it is to get a high end instrument.
I guess high end instruments are that expensive just because they’re high end instruments.
I am not sure of that, a student of mine bought a thee quarter set (Hunter half with two Bourke regulators) a few years ago, one that belonged to Alan Burton. That was up for sale for months and months and there were no takers. He’s currently thinking of moving on to a full set and I am certain he will entertain reasonable offers. The set is going well.
A B chanter has been for sale on the forum for a while now (at an extraordinary high price I admit : 30% higher than a fully keyed mammoth ivory mounted ebony Wooff C chanter I got two years ago) and no takers there either.
The idea that they are made by someone other than Hunter himself makes no difference to me…they are made to his measurements, in his style and specifications, using the tooling and processes that Hunter developed over many years to produce a consistent high-end product.
How well a chanter speaks is determined by the final stage: the final voicing and tuning. That is a specific skill and I would think a personal one. It is one that can be learned but no tooling, measurements and processes will guarantee a chanter will be equal to another one if that last phase isn’t done by the same hand and with the same ear(bear I mind I am not saying it won’t be by definition but it’s there the pipemaker’s personal vision and skill come together to give voice to the instrument).
That was one of the ads I responded to on the first day, but I was told they were already spoken for. I should have specified that I seek a concert pitch chanter, and that the ones I’ve been responding to were the ads for such.
I’ve been away for a few weeks and so missed most of this and have no real desire to go back through and comment on stuff that
“mentions my own name so much that even my best friend would be sick of it” - Flann O’Brien
However
How well a chanter speaks is determined by the final stage: the final voicing and tuning. That is a specific skill and I would think a personal one. It is one that can be learned but no tooling, measurements and processes will guarantee a chanter will be equal to another one if that last phase isn’t done by the same hand and with the same ear(bear I mind I am not saying it won’t be by definition but it’s there the pipemaker’s personal vision and skill come together to give voice to the instrument)
This I would agree with, however it is a skill that can be learned and duplicated to a very high degree - though Peter L has defined the one way in which our chanters may differ. Not only between me and Peter H but also between our own, as it is an expression of a few things
personality
where we are at a particular point in what we want
who the chanter is for and what they’re after
BUT we’re talking very small differences especially on the concert chanters as they can work great “off the jig”.
I am really happy to work alongside Peter, he has taught me a huge amount and I like and respect him and will be proud to continue the Hunter name down the years, with careful tweaks that we both approve of.
I don’t need my own name stamped on an instrument to make me feel good . . . however we are working towards getting a stamp (s) made up (anyone know a good firm for this?) and will then encourage all owners to come in for a free retro-stamping and checkup.
My primary motivation is in carrying the instrument forward. I’ve done quite a bit of work on regulator design which was been very successful but left the chanters well alone because I think (properly reeded up) they are unbeatable to my ears. Nothing satisfies everyone and why should it (true for every instrument) but if I could have any chanter going it would be a Hunter and that’s why I work with Peter.
This I would agree with, however it is a skill that can be learned and duplicated to a very high degree - though Peter L has defined the one way in which our chanters may differ. Not only between me and Peter H but also between our own, as it is an expression of a few things
personality
where we are at a particular point in what we want
who the chanter is for and what they’re after
BUT we’re talking very small differences especially on the concert chanters as they can work great “off the jig”.
I fully agree with that, I was only pointing to the flaw in the reasoning that measurements, tools and process will guarantee chanters that will be equal. It’s the same sort of reasoning that is at the core of the ‘Rowsome’ ‘Coyne’ or whatever copy talk and exactly this is what makes why these copies generally fail to sound anything like the original.
I fully agree with that, I was only pointing to the flaw in the reasoning that measurements, tools and process will guarantee chanters that will be equal. It’s the same sort of reasoning that is at the core of the ‘Rowsome’ ‘Coyne’ or whatever copy talk and exactly this is what makes why these copies generally fail to sound anything like the original
Not sure what he meant and won’t presume anything as ‘posts’ are so easily misconstrued.
I have heard and played both Hunter and Woofe B chanters..
There is nothing inferior about the Hunter B.
*I should also add that they are easy to reed. Every bit “old world” sounding (diametrically opposed to, lets say Rogge’s take on B) In tune LH 2nd octave, and as per every Hunter; lovely hard D and E.
Why would you think the Hunter B chanter is inferior to your Woof C chanter?
I noted, as an aside, a difference in price between a B chanter for sale @ €2K and an ivory mounted top of the range one with stop key head I had made. And it was the B chanter that was higher by 30%, which I suggested as a possible reason for the chanter not selling.
I did not even hint at my thoughts on issues of quality nor did I give any such issues much consideration in this context.
Why would you get the idea I did in any sort of way?
like I noted, this is a list where misunderstandings and innuendo, be they ghosted, sincere, or hallucinated…run a-muck.
I noted quality on my behalf as all it takes is one person to create an entire current of (mis)belief. Therefore, my intentions are to cut a potential avalanche of BS off at the nearest pass.
There is one member of this board who was given a ‘Hunter’ by ‘Hunter’ chanter because the original owner did not think much of it
As usual it is horses for courses and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and not every chanter is going to suit every piper. Some want a sweet mellow tone, some want a session blaster etc. etc.
this design of chanter can be reeded to be both a session blaster or a sweet mellow sounding chanter.
i made two reeds for mine. one for playing at home and one for the session .
this truly is an amasingly versitile instrument and can only be commented on by owners.
as i feel one quick trial of annother pipers chanter is not going to give you the feel for the instrument.
Just for the record, I never did any work for or with Alain Froment. I bought my lathe from him and he gave me some advice. However, from the start I had my own workshop and made my own reamers and other tools. No Froment pipes have ever had any input from me and vice versa. In fact he was unwilling to teach me unless I went and got an engineering qualification. My opinion was that there were plenty of engineers making pipes, and not enough musicians! I felt that being able to play the pipes and make good reeds were a sound enough basis to start pipemaking, so I found my own way. I had plenty of good advice over the years particularly from Dave Williams, Geoff Woofe and Cillian O’Brien who were always at the end of a phone. But I was apprentice to nobody and never worked for anyone else.
