Hey everyone,
I am learning the dreaded bagpipes and have reached the point where I need a set of my own. Anyone have a set they would be willing to sell cheap or perhaps work a trade for whistles?
I know, I know, they aren’t exactly whistles, but my Granny was a Scot and it makes me think of her, it’s just something I have to do!
Sandy
Hi Sandy,
I have recently overhauled my set of R.G. Hardie pipes and brought them up to date with synthetic bag and reeds. I played the set from 1976 to 1983 (they were considered top of the line during that era. Now they have slipped in status…I’m not sure if it’s is due to the competition getting better or Hardie pipes getting worse with time). I have every intention of getting back into the pipes after my long absence, but, as you know, I need to start up again with the practice chanter and relearn all that I have forgotten. Plus, this silly whistle thing has me sidetracked. In the interim, however, it seems a waste to have the newly spruced up set just going to waste. The improvements: Canmore bag, new blowpipe with Little Mac valve, Wygent Synth drone reeds, new bag cover in Lindsay tartan and all the hemp rewaxed or replaced. The drones are straight and beautiful, the imit. ivory yellowed with age. The nickel ferrules are polished, but cracked
Would you be interested in a long term loan, perhaps 6 months, for a couple of whistles? Personally, I would want to jump right in and by a set that I can call my own…that’s the way I am, and that’s the way I will be until my end. That said, I feel qualified to point out the folly in my attitude. The pipes are a set of components (drones, bags, chanter, reeds), each with it’s own set of options…wood/synthetic, cane/synthetic, leather/synthetic, and traditional/modernized, etc, etc. I think after you messed around with a set for awhile, you might be better qualified to make these decisions on your own, as opposed to just taking people’s words for it.
Anyway, think it over, let me know.
Eric
Edited to remove a salutation identifying myself as being from the Chiff & Fipple message board…I think that’s obvious, eh? (This message was intended to be an email, then I changed my mind)
[ This Message was edited by: vaporlock on 2002-10-04 16:57 ]
Vaporlock
Thanks for the generous offer! It sounds like you have a beautiful set of pipes. You are correct in assuming that I would like to get my own set so that I can get comfortable with it, yet as you suggested I am reluctant to make a major decision on something I have no experience on.
I will give the post a little longer to see if I can find a set of my own, but if I have no luck I will consider you kind offer!
Thanks again,
Sandy
Sandy,
Actually, you live in a great area for highland pipes. A couple of resources that may help:
http://www.bobdunsire.com/bagpipeweb/
and the BC Piper’s Association -
http://www.bcpipers.org/index.htm
The next time you’re on the mainland, stop by Tartantown in Coquitlam http://www.tartantown.com/ Terry Lee is very helpful and one of the most knowledgeable pipers on the planet. They sell pipes, of course, but he’d probably know who has a used set for sale/trade and might even be able to find you a loaner set. If you don’t already have a teacher, he can set you up with someone.
Good luck
Teri
Sandy,
I’m curious: how long have you been learning? How has the process been for you? I’ve long considered adding them to by own repertoire (been playing whistles about three years now), and am wondering about your experience.
-Tom
Talk to your pipe teacher. Seriously. If he/she doesn’t have any suggestions, check with the local pipe band. A fair number of folks seem to upgrade to fancier-looking pipes and have a plain, but good, set of pipes stored under the bed.
My highland pipes are my dad’s first set. He got a fancier-looking set that he uses exclusively, but the pipes he gave me are still excellent pipes. I’m all about sound, anyway. My mother’s pipes are antique Hardies. She tells me that Hardies have lost a bit of status recently because their best pipemakers have gotten old and retired. They still make a good stand of pipes, but the new folks are not as consistent as the old pros were.
I have to tell you to stay away from Pakistani bagpipes. You want something you can actually play. There are some pipes coming out of Pakistan that are acceptable. My mother’s first set was a Paki pipe with a Scottish chanter, set up by John Rosenberger. Those were stolen before I was born. If set up by a competent piper, this can be an option to save about 400 bucks. That way, you’re looking at $600 instead of $1000 for your first pipes.
There are a couple of makes of all-plastic pipes on the market, too. These are certainly a lower-cost option. The local pipe band got a couple of these for loaners. They disliked the sound of the drones so much the pipes are now in storage.
Really, the best way to start is to talk to your pipe teacher. If you are self-taught (it happens, but is a lot harder than with the whistle), find a local pipe band and talk to them.
-Patrick
Tom
The process of learning the pipes has been a lot harder than I thought it would be but rewarding as well. I have been playing the chanter for almost a year now. I haven’t put as much time into it as someone who only played the pipes would, but I have learned a lot. (A chanter is a practice instrament used by pipers. It has the same fingering as the pipes but is the size of a Bb whistle and usues a reed for sound)
The hardest part about learning the pipes for me has been the air requirment and the different note names.
Most of the instraments I play have the same or almost the same names for fingering. Sax, whistle, recorder and flute all play a D the same way. But on the chanter a D is played with only 3 fingers down (G on all my other instraments) I find it hard to read the music and not play the notes the way I have been trained to.
Your lips have to work really hard on the pipes too. On a whistle, sax etc, you have a place to rest your lips. On the chanter and pipes, the mouthpiece is tubular. You really have to grip it with the lips and blow hard, your lips get tired and you start making ungodly farting noises! This is my real weak point.
Once you get the fingering down on the chanter you start to blow on the pipes with some of the drones plugged. Just getting a steady tone is a job in itself. I started to pass out the first time! I have since realized that I have to think of it differently. We use direct air pressure to play the whistle. If you try to do that with the pipes, you will see start! The bag pressure is where it is at.
Ornamentation is also difficult. They are very strict about everyone doing the same ornamentation and for us free thinking Irish Whistle Players, it is something like a cowboy joining an English Riding club. The ornamentations are very quick and can use up to 5 notes!
Pipe majors have hearing better than the average bat and can tell if you faked an ornamentation or if your fingering was sloppy in any way. The good news is you become really aware of your fingers and what you are doing.
I love the group of people I am learning with,it is a great learning environment and worth the trouble. Pipers have a great network of people all over the world so there is plenty of support out there for people who wish to learn. I get lessons for free at the local legion and they even supply the uniform which costs many hundreds of dollars! Not much in this world is free so it impresses me that there are organizations out ther willing to teach for the sake of keeping a tradition alive.
I think that learning the pipes will definatly make me a better whistle player as I have been exposed to new styles, songs, ornamentation and a higher level of dicipline.
I have had some great experiences with the band too. I competed in the highland games and earned a silver on the chanter (my first medal!!) I saw a mass band play 12 bands in the field and got to feel the history and power of the instrament at a safe distance.
I have learned that no matter what, some people will never like the pipes, cat jokes and pipes come hand in hand and that people never tire of asking me what is under my kilt!
If you are interested in trying the instrament, buy a chanter and go down to your local pipe band and try it out for a couple of months. Even if you decide not to stay with the instrament, you will have a taste of it and will take something back with you!
Sandy
I would very highly recommend a set from Jerry Gibson. There are excellent pipes for the money, and will last you if you compete until about grade one or so.
I’m going to give a little advice, but first let me state my credentials.
I have taught the pipes to many students over the years, several of whom became gold medalists at major competitions on the West Coast judged by famous Scottish judges, including Donald Shaw Ramsey, John McLellan and Bob Hardie, original maker of the famous Hardie brand pipes).
I was the first president of the Pibroch Society of Northern California in the mid 1970’s, and I have also competed individually, both in pibroch (ceol mhor) and the usual MSR stuff. I also played for many years of a Grade 1 band (Lockheed of Sunnyvale, CA) and was later pipe major for 10 years of a Grade 2 band,(Stuart Highlanders of San Francisco).
Now for the advice:
You cannot teach yourself to play bagpipes properly. You must have the discipline and organiszation that cannot only be imposed by a really knowledgeable teacher who can bring you along at the pace and tailor instruction to suit your strengths and weaknesses, and most of all, who can see and hear what you are actually doing (as opposed to what you think you are doing!)and thus keep you from falling into bad habits. No video tape instruction can do this and it is essential because, believe me, left to your own devices, you will go off the rails without even realizing it. Bad habits are too easy to learn and hard to break, which must be done if before the correct habit can be aquired. This is something that most people find difficult to do for psychological as well as physical reasons.
Second: It’s tough enough to learn to play the pipes without having to fight a bad instrument. Get pipes made by a reputable maker. Usually they will be made of grenadilla (African Blackwood), which is the best wood commonly available today for woodwinds. Avoid Pakistani products, or anything made of assertedly made of “ebony” or “cocus”. There may be good pipes coming from North American, French, German or Swiss makers (yes, there are a few!) but generally stick to the better known Scottish or Irish makes. Let your teacher be your guide.
Bagpipes can be easy to blow if they are not leaking air anywhere and the reeds are well chosen and set up; so easy that “you can blow them with your nose”, as we used to say.That nirvana can only be achieved by somebody who knows how to set them up, pick and fine tune chanter reeds and adjust drone reeds so that they give a maximum of proper sound using a minimum of air. Learning to maintain easyfoing pipes is as much a part of piping a fingering the chanter and reading the music.
For starters, make sure the pipes are not leaking, because nobody, not the MacCrimmons themselves, will long play on and instrument that’s doubling as a air filter. To check for suspected leaks, plug up the drone and chanter stocks with cork or rubber stoppers, but leave in the blow pipe. Blow up the bag.
It should stay as tight as a drum. If it does not, and the corks are in tightly and air is not leaking back through the blow pipe valve, the next step is the water test.
Fill a big contain, (a sink will do) and submerge the bag or pour water over it. You will soon find the problem. The bag may need seasoning, or a stock may need to be retied in if the bag is rather newly installed.
Once that’s taken care of, you can insert the chanter in its stock and try playing tat alone. If the reed is going well and the chanter well hemped, it should be easy.
Next, remove the chanter and stopper its stock. Then try the same proceedure with the drones to make sure none are leaking around the tenon. To do this you can remove the top drone sections and put a piece of tape over the tuning pin bore.
Then put restore the drone tops. It shouldn’t take too much air to make the drones sound. If it seems otherwise, adjust the drone reed tongues so each uses a minimum of air to sound. (You may find you have a problem drone reed that needs major attention or replacement).
Then put the chanter back in and give the whole set a go. Should go like grease!
The trick is to check each source of trouble one at a time and assure yourself that each problem is corrected before going any further.
Your pipes should be your friend, not you enemy. Never fight them, because the fact is that you can’t win! And, as the auld Scots saying goes, “Facts are chiels that winnae ding!”
If you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
Mal
I’m going to give a little advice, but first let me state my credentials.
I have taught the pipes to many students over the years, several of whom became gold medalists at major competitions on the West Coast judged by famous Scottish judges, including Donald Shaw Ramsey, John McLellan and Bob Hardie, original maker of the famous Hardie brand pipes).
I was the first president of the Pibroch Society of Northern California in the mid 1970’s, and I have also competed individually, both in pibroch (ceol mhor) and the usual MSR stuff. I also played for many years of a Grade 1 band (Lockheed of Sunnyvale, CA) and was later pipe major for 10 years of a Grade 2 band,(Stuart Highlanders of San Francisco).
Now for the advice:
You cannot teach yourself to play bagpipes properly. You must have the discipline and organiszation that cannot only be imposed by a really knowledgeable teacher who can bring you along at the pace and tailor instruction to suit your strengths and weaknesses, and most of all, who can see and hear what you are actually doing (as opposed to what you think you are doing!)and thus keep you from falling into bad habits. No video tape instruction can do this and it is essential because, believe me, left to your own devices, you will go off the rails without even realizing it. Bad habits are too easy to learn and hard to break, which must be done if before the correct habit can be aquired. This is something that most people find difficult to do for psychological as well as physical reasons.
Second: It’s tough enough to learn to play the pipes without having to fight a bad instrument. Get pipes made by a reputable maker. Usually they will be made of grenadilla (African Blackwood), which is the best wood commonly available today for woodwinds. Avoid Pakistani products, or anything made of assertedly made of “ebony” or “cocus”. There may be good pipes coming from North American, French, German or Swiss makers (yes, there are a few!) but generally stick to the better known Scottish or Irish makes. Let your teacher be your guide.
Bagpipes can be easy to blow if they are not leaking air anywhere and the reeds are well chosen and set up; so easy that “you can blow them with your nose”, as we used to say.That nirvana can only be achieved by somebody who knows how to set them up, pick and fine tune chanter reeds and adjust drone reeds so that they give a maximum of proper sound using a minimum of air. Learning to maintain easyfoing pipes is as much a part of piping a fingering the chanter and reading the music.
For starters, make sure the pipes are not leaking, because nobody, not the MacCrimmons themselves, will long play on and instrument that’s doubling as a air filter. To check for suspected leaks, plug up the drone and chanter stocks with cork or rubber stoppers, but leave in the blow pipe. Blow up the bag.
It should stay as tight as a drum. If it does not, and the corks are in tightly and air is not leaking back through the blow pipe valve, the next step is the water test.
Fill a big contain, (a sink will do) and submerge the bag or pour water over it. You will soon find the problem. The bag may need seasoning, or a stock may need to be retied in if the bag is rather newly installed.
Once that’s taken care of, you can insert the chanter in its stock and try playing tat alone. If the reed is going well and the chanter well hemped, it should be easy.
Next, remove the chanter and stopper its stock. Then try the same proceedure with the drones to make sure none are leaking around the tenon. To do this you can remove the top drone sections and put a piece of tape over the tuning pin bore.
Then put restore the drone tops. It shouldn’t take too much air to make the drones sound. If it seems otherwise, adjust the drone reed tongues so each uses a minimum of air to sound. (You may find you have a problem drone reed that needs major attention or replacement).
Then put the chanter back in and give the whole set a go. Should go like grease!
The trick is to check each source of trouble one at a time and assure yourself that each problem is corrected before going any further.
Your pipes should be your friend, not you enemy. Never fight them, because the fact is that you can’t win! And, as the auld Scots saying goes, “Facts are chiels that winnae ding!”
If you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
Mal
Mel
Thanks for all the feedback and good advice! I do have a good teacher, his name is Angus MacCleod and he is in his 80s. He has been playing pipes since he was a child and is very patient while being firm. I had a class last night and he gave me a gentle prodding to get myself some pipes, so here I post!
I will print off your advice to put in my book so that when I get a set of pipes I can trouble shoot them. I have also saved the links that others put up on the site in hopes of finding a set.
Wish me luck!
Sandy
Teri offered some of the best advice. Terry Lee is the man to get in contact with. He is pipe major of the Simon Fraser University Pipe Band (if you didn’t already know) and has led that band to 4 World Championships (more than any band outside of Scotland) as well as Australian Championsips and two North American Champions (they went first in 1982 and won then didn’t go back until this year and took it again). Also working at TartanTown are usually members of SFU. Terry carries several makes of pipes though he and the rest of the band play Naills. Naills are the Stratocaster of the Great Highland Bagpipe. For whistle players you could call them the Sindt and for flute players you called them the Olwell of the GHB.
If something like that is just way out of your range and you get too anxious to wait for a good deal on a used set to pop up there is an option. I’ve heard several good comments about a guy in Kentucky named Peter Crisler. He’s a professional tool and diecaster and used to do all kinds of nuclear stuff for the US Navy so he’s a very precise guy. He makes a stand of rosewood drones in the US$400 range. They have an old-fashioned bead/comb but apparently the tone is rock solid. He doesn’t make a chanter but that you could get from TartanTown or find used relatively easy. You can get a new plastic chanter for about US$150. Maybe NAFTA will cut down on the duty. 
What part of Western Canada are you in? I play with a grade 2 band in Regina SK.
Cheers,
Aaron
[ This Message was edited by: AaronMalcomb on 2002-10-05 00:24 ]
I think the BEST person to talk with is Angus MacCleod! He’s the one who’s going to be helping you “tame the new beast”. He would probably have some excellent ideas on what to buy, whether to go new or used, and where to buy.
I have a set of Naill pipes which my teacher helped me find new for a very good price. I’ve also been thinking about a set of Dunbar polypenco (can you say “sacriledge”?) pipes. They are quite inexpensive and go anywhere without worrying about excessive care or wear and tear.
On 2002-10-05 00:41, John Allison wrote:
I have a set of Naill pipes which my teacher helped me find new for a very good price. I’ve also been thinking about a set of Dunbar polypenco (can you say “sacriledge”?) pipes. They are quite inexpensive and go anywhere without worrying about excessive care or wear and tear.
John:
Have you tried a Dunbar set, or know someone who has? I ask because of the moisture issue. My GHB’s were blackwood and I didn’t have any moisture problems, even living in the Pacific NW. Now I have a set of John Walsh D2000 smallpipes - poly. They’re a great little set of pipes, especially for the money. But, they need a complete swab down every time I play them. The poly doesn’t absorb moisture, especially in this climate and the stand has to be completely taken apart (blow pipe, drones, chanter) to dry. I’m wondering if Dunbars, or the like, would have the same problem.
Teri
I’m going to chime in because I, too, have played and competed (successfully!) on the Highland pipes for . . . golly . . . maybe 15 years?
DO find a teacher. If for no other reason than that some key points of technique are far from intuitive. You’ll be doing yourself a HUGE disservice not to. Also, pipe bands (those in grades 4-5, the lower grades) often give free lessons. So your monetary outlay will be for the pipes.
Second, I want to disagree with Mal’s comments to stick to Scots or Irish as makers. You’re in North America, you can get a set made here in the US or in Canada which equals or rivals anything made in Scotland now. I’d check with C.E. Kron or Roddy Maclellan, both of whom make excellent pipes. And both of whom have simple-decoration sets for less than $1000, I think. I own two sets of Krons, one blackwood and one pink ivory. Roddy restored my 18th-century cocus-and-ivory set expertly.
If you want to deal with dealers who sell several makes and can advise you well, I deal with the following three and like them all professionally and personally.
Ron Bowen
Chris Hamilton
Jim McGillivray
Listed alphabetically.
Stuart
[ This Message was edited by: sturob on 2002-10-05 11:03 ]
Teri- The SFU band is going to the stone mountian games in a couple of weeks, right? Im competeting down there, and would love to hear you guys.
[ This Message was edited by: theweirdscotsman on 2002-10-05 11:35 ]
On 2002-10-05 11:34, theweirdscotsman wrote:
Teri- The SFU band is going to the stone mountian games in a couple of weeks, right? Im competeting down there, and would love to hear you guys.[ This Message was edited by: theweirdscotsman on 2002-10-05 11:35 ]
SFU will be there giving a concert. “You guys” ?? I’m not in the SFU pipe band. Maybe you confused the Teri & Terry discussed in this thread. Definitely go hear them if you can.
Teri
On 2002-10-05 11:50, Teri-K wrote:
On 2002-10-05 11:34, theweirdscotsman wrote:
Teri- The SFU band is going to the stone mountian games in a couple of weeks, right? Im competeting down there, and would love to hear you guys.[ This Message was edited by:
A common mistake! >
theweirdscotsman on 2002-10-05 11:35 ]SFU will be there giving a concert. “You guys” ?? I’m not in the SFU pipe band. Maybe you confused the Teri & Terry discussed in this thread. Definitely go hear them if you can.
Teri
One of my first sets was a polypenco Dunbar and at one point when I was between pipes I borrowed a set for a couple months. They really aren’t too bad. They really do give you a Henderson-esque tone. I did have to put extra cobblers’ wax on the reed seats as they tended to become unseated in hot, humid weather. Apparently the previously mentioned Crisler’s delrin pipes rival the Dunbars.
Go see SFU! You’ll love it!
Cheers,
Aaron
On 2002-10-05 08:41, Teri-K wrote:
John:
Have you tried a Dunbar set, or know someone who has? I ask because of the moisture issue. My GHB’s were blackwood and I didn’t have any moisture problems, even living in the Pacific NW. Now I have a set of John Walsh D2000 smallpipes - poly. They’re a great little set of pipes, especially for the money. But, they need a complete swab down every time I play them. The poly doesn’t absorb moisture, especially in this climate and the stand has to be completely taken apart (blow pipe, drones, chanter) to dry. I’m wondering if Dunbars, or the like, would have the same problem.Teri
No, I haven’t tried the Dunbar polys yet and no one in my area of Southern California will say anything about them. Delrin is not one of the sacred woods used in making GHBs so its name is unspeakable in public.
I live right on the edge of the desert…the humidity doesn’t change much at all…I’m not a wet blower…all of these factor into a set of almost too dry pipes.
I’ve also been looking into the Walsh smallpipes because I don’t like having to be banished to the field across the street to play. At one time someone loaned me a set of Edinburgh practice pipes which sounded nothing like a real set even though they were very quiet!
