Sunnywindo you said what I was thinking re: the biblical basis for what’s going on in the middle east. Biblically, we also know what’s eventually to come too.
I had to LOL when I read Stout’s comparison of Hitler and Regan… Regan was a better actor you know,the way some talk, they would be happy to declare him a saint…
Sunny, it was a joke! He isn’t even close to being as bad as Hitler. But like all jokes it has some truth, I cannot stand Reagan, he is responsible for so much of the bad stuff that has happened to this country and the world over the last 20 years. Almost every action that he took had a negative impact on America! And now we have a new Reagan.
And about the Palistine/Isreal thing. Suicide bombing is a horrible thing. The Palistinians really need to change there methods of civil disobiedence. But 100 hundred years ago the jews were doing the same thing. They were terrorists. The zionists were just as bad as the suicide bombers. The settlers and Sharom are two of the biggest obsticles to overcome in this battle. It goes far beyond self defense, they want it all! Why do you think Sharom is in power? Niether side is in the right and both are equally guilty. The blame game isn’t the answer. Direct actions need to be taken.
People are a product of their environment. People do not change if their environment doesn’t change. That should be our war on terror. Not oil hunting, not wag the dog bombing, and not the continuation of Americas Foriegn policy for the past 20 years.
And yes Reagan was the worst president in the post World War 2 era.
Jack Murphy
On 2002-11-26 01:06, MurphyStout wrote:
And yes Reagan was the worst president in the post World War 2 era.
He sure got a lot of votes.
Just to clear things up-
Worst post World War 2 presidents
1st Reagan
2nd (but a close 2nd) Clinton
3rd Eisenhower
And yes he did sure get alot of votes, but so did Clinton and Ike. So what does that tell ye Walden?
On 2002-11-26 01:14, Walden wrote:
On 2002-11-26 01:06, MurphyStout wrote:
And yes Reagan was the worst president in the post World War 2 era.He sure got a lot of votes.
Exactly. That’s the scaring thing.
Politics on the chiffboard. What’s the world coming to? 
On 2002-11-25 18:37, Sunnywindo wrote:
I believe, in my religion, that there was a war in heaven fought over this freedom to choose. God held a great council, to prepare a way for those who went to earth to be able to return to His presence. Satan volunteered basically saying send me and I will force everyone be good at all costs and not one soul will be lost. One third of the entire host of heaven agreed with him. Then Christ stood up saying send me and I will do whatever God asks me to so to help make a way possible. Satan and his third was cast out because the real God does not force everyone to follow him. I believe this life was supposed to be about choosing the best we could what path we would take to prove if we were worthy of the blessings in store in the next life. We had learned all we could in the spirit world and now it was time for the final exam to see if we could move on to the next grade so to speak.
A story came out in a local newspaper a few years back. The Pope gets a phone call at the Vatican. A cardinal answers it. He says, “Your Holiness, there is good news and there is bad news.” The Pope says, “What is the good news?” “Jesus has returned and is setting up His Kingdom on earth,” said the cardinal. “That is wonderful news,” said the Pope, “what could possibly be bad news in that?” The cardinal responded, “the call came from Salt Lake City.”
I am an Evangelical, and not LDS, but I do agree with a lot of Sunny’s point, and that is, that the religious symbolism and history behind the whole thing cannot be divorced from the situation.
My parents are missionaries, and have had first-hand encounters with the terrorists, while doing humanitarian work. It is not an easy subject for me.
It is my prayer that there is peace. Peace for the Arabs. Peace for the Americans. Peace for the Europeans. Peace for the Jews. I pray for peace.
On 2002-11-26 01:23, MurphyStout wrote:
Just to clear things up-Worst post World War 2 presidents
1st Reagan
2nd (but a close 2nd) Clinton
3rd EisenhowerAnd yes he did sure get alot of votes, but so did Clinton and Ike. So what does that tell ye Walden?
Well…I don’t know just what it tells me…but you can see a classic TV moment with him and the late great Tennessee Ernie Ford at http://www.ernieford.com/TEFandRon.htm
On 2002-11-26 04:49, Jens_Hoppe wrote:
Politics on the chiffboard. What’s the world coming to? >
Oops.
On 2002-11-26 01:23, MurphyStout wrote:
Just to clear things up-Worst post World War 2 presidents
1st Reagan
2nd (but a close 2nd) Clinton
3rd EisenhowerAnd yes he did sure get alot of votes, but so did Clinton and Ike. So what does that tell ye Walden?
It is my belief that the reason we go war is usually monetary. This means that the hearts and minds of the people must be persuaded to vote for the spending and to keep those politicians in power. President Eisenhower realized the power and economic force held by a group he deemed the Military Industrial Complex. Half way thru his second term he made his famous speech warning the American public about them and there control over large parts of the US government thru lobbies and other means (he did not come right out and say kick backs).
Here was a Republican pro business President who also happened to have seen the horror of war standing up and asking us to take a second look at how run our government.
He did allow his Administration to be managed by those he warned about but in realizing this had the courage to stand up and make it know to the public, whom were unfortunately not listening.
Quote
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve and receive neither liberty nor safety…”
On 2002-11-26 01:06, MurphyStout wrote:
…I cannot stand Reagan, he is responsible for so much of the bad stuff that has happened to this country and the world over the last 20 years.
Like the end of the cold war, the fall of the Iron Curtain & Communism and bringing down the Berlin wall? Those are some of the MOST SIGNIFICANT events of the past century and, yes, Reagan was responsible for them.
And about the Palistine/Isreal thing. Suicide bombing is a horrible thing. The Palistinians really need to change there methods of civil disobiedence. But 100 hundred years ago the jews were doing the same thing. They were terrorists. The zionists were just as bad as the suicide bombers.
Yeah, I still remember how Israel blew up all those buses, pool halls and restaraunts, terrorized the Munic Olympics and assinated Robert Kennedy… Oh, yeah, and lynched people in the streets who were suspected of collaborating with the enemy.
People are a product of their environment. People do not change if their environment doesn’t change. That should be our war on terror. Not oil hunting, not wag the dog bombing, and not the continuation of Americas Foriegn policy for the past 20 years.
And yes Reagan was the worst president in the post World War 2 era.
Jack Murphy
Jack, I respect your position. However, to say Reagan, “… is responsible for so much of the bad stuff that has happened to this country and the world over the last 20 years…” is to ignore that human slavery still exists in Muslim countries and that in the past 10 years, 2 million non Muslilms were murdered in Sudan.
Islam is on a global Crusade. Here’s a partial list, just in case you forgot…
Muslims in USA; 9-11 attack kills 3000 innocents, killing American diplomats (aid and development), ripping off welfare programs, funding terror, kidnapping kids, blowing up Embassies, sniper and gun attacks kill innocents.
Muslims in Russia; attack parade 38 innocent killed, Moscow 118 killed in theater (terrorists fault)
Muslims in Australia; gang rapes of Australian girls, by Lebanese Muslim immigrants
Muslims in Sri Lanka; attacking the Christians Hindu and Chinese, causing riots and death and destruction
Muslims in Singapore; attacking the Christians Hindu and Chinese
Muslims in Malaysia; attacking the Christians and Hindus and Chinese
Muslims in Kashmir; burning Hindus, constant attacks on innocent people
Muslims in India; blowing up temples full of people. Constant attacks on innocent people
Muslims in the Philippines; kidnapping, raping and killing civilians, calling for separate state (Pray for Walden’s parents who are missionaries there!)
Muslims in Somalia; committing genocide on Christians (all dead or gone) WOMEN AND KIDS ENSLAVED killing UN aid workers
Muslims in Sudan; also committing Genocide on Christians (dead or gone) killing UN aid workers
Muslims in Serbia; attacking Christian Serbs and churches
Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina; Bombing churches beating Christians
Muslims in Iraq; Killing neighboring Muslims and infidels oppressing all non-Islamic
Muslims in Israel; Palestinians slaughtering Jewish civilians and children.
Muslims in Indonesia; murdering the infidels, teachers and destroying churches (Christmas eve) and ethnic homes and businesses. Raping and attacking Christians
Muslims in Philippines; genocide of Christians, kidnapping/murder, child-soldiers, calling for separate state, bus and church bombings
Muslims in Bali; bombing, killing, raping Christians and Hindus
Muslims in Bangladesh; kidnapping, enslave, murders, bombings
Muslims in Saudi Arabia; hijacking US planes and flying into populated buildings, oppression of all other religion and killing opponents
Muslims in Yemen; blowing up US ships and attacking foreign nationals
Muslims in China; undermining the governments slow acceptance of capitalism with guerilla attacks on industry and usual threats and harassment
Muslims in Pakistan; attacking and killing foreign civilians and other innocent Christians trying to assist
Muslims in Sierra Leone; genocide of Christians
Muslims in Uganda; genocide of Christians, Muslims calling for separate state
Muslims in Rwanda; genocide of Christians, Muslims calling for separate state
Muslims in Zimbabwe; genocide of Christians, deportations and harassment
Muslims in Congo; genocide of Christians, Muslims calling for separate state
Muslims in Nigeria; genocide of Christians, Muslims calling for separate state
Muslims in Burkina Faso; send terrorists into Ivory Coast
Muslims in Namibia; genocide of Christians, Muslims calling for separate state
Muslims in South Africa; persecution of Christians, Muslims calling for separate state
Muslims in Algeria; Christians killed, priests beheaded, churches destroyed
Muslims in Bangladesh; Churches destroyed, Christian schools harassed and boarded up
Muslims in England; Race riots 2001
get ready for more! Beating up innocent old ladies and men and killing and raping teens
Muslims in Azerbaijan; Christians harassed, jailed and deported or killed, churches burned or boarded up
Muslims in Ivory Coast; genocide of Christians
Muslims in India; infiltrators attack capital, kill diplomats and innocents
Muslims in Kashmir; wanton killing and bombing of innocents
Muslims in Chechnya; blowing up police stations and churches, killing telecom workers and innocents
Muslims in Afghanistan; Islamists attacking Americans and killing each other over fundamentals.
Muslims in Morocco; calling for Islamic state with sharia, bombings and killing innocents
Muslims in West Papua; bombing and killing infidels
Muslims in Finland; bombing and killing infidel innocents
Muslims in Kosovo; slaughtering Christians.
Muslims in Thailand; murdering the non-believers and tourists, bombings
Muslims in Belgium; bombing and killing infidel innocents
Muslims in Holland; beating up old ladies, men and kids
Muslims in Australia; Gang-raping 13-14 year old aussie girls, murders
Muslims in Jordan; kill diplomats and innocents (and last week an American nurse from California.
Muslims in France; harassing non-Muslims and tourists, gang rapes
The Bushes are involved in a holy war just as the Taliban is. Their religion is oil, and their god is money.
If the Bushes main interest is Money..than why do they risk supporting the only country in the entire region that dosn’t have a drop of oil (Israel)?
My personal preferance would be after ramping up our presence in the area we surprise everyone and rather than attack Iraq, we bomb the heck out of Saudi Arabia for their unrelenting support of Islamo-Facism and exporting terroism.
And Murphy…comparing Reagan to Hitler is more pathetic than anything I’ve heard Osama say.
What I don’t understand is why perceived handicapped bashing is not allowed and censored while blatent Muslim bashing is?
T
Teri:
TubeDude is stating facts, not bashing Muslims. We are in what Muslims consider their age of ascendancy, in which their true religion overtakes the incorrect infidel power structures. You could try and construct a list such as Tube’s, but it wouldnt be as long or as onerous right now.
You can get as culturally relativist as you want, but in the end, many of their mullahs wish to conquer and destroy us and have begun doing so bankrolled by rich Saudis, credit card fraud, oil money , drug smuggling etc.
Islam…the religion of peace, slavery, female circumcision and oppression of Christian and animist minorities. The beliefs of their humble may be as genuine and spiritual as anyone else on earth, but the philosophy, in the end, is to dominate and no amount of intellectual explanation, apologies and revisionism can change that.
Some of you guys make me ashamed of being human.
Some of you guys make me ashamed of being human.
Who says were human?
TubeDude’s tactics are pretty heavy-handed but perhaps necessary. It’s not doing anyone any favors to ignore real facts about real differences for the sake of toleration and feeling good about everyone.
The Muslim world is not the Western world. As wholes the two have fundamentally different ideas about values, fundamentally different goals, fundamentally different means. They may be misunderstood–but that doesn’t mean that if everyone understood each other we’d realize that we’re really all the same inside. We’re not.
On 2002-11-26 11:17, Andreas wrote:
Some of you guys make me ashamed of being human.
Dont know if you are referring to me, but what the Islamists are up to all around the world summon the same response in my heart. Especially the slavery and genital mutilation because its done with such gusto. But I guess its just my Euro-Americano-centric belief system that makes me believe that those actions are wrong…if I just see it from their way, its all o-kay. Is that it??
[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-11-26 11:50 ]
On 2002-11-26 11:10, The Weekenders wrote:
Teri:
TubeDude is stating facts, not bashing Muslims. We are in what Muslims consider their age of ascendancy, in which their true religion overtakes the incorrect infidel power structures. You could try and construct a list such as Tube’s, but it wouldnt be as long or as onerous right now.
You can get as culturally relativist as you want, but in the end, many of their mullahs wish to conquer and destroy us and have begun doing so bankrolled by rich Saudis, credit card fraud, oil money , drug smuggling etc.Islam…the religion of peace, slavery, female circumcision and oppression of Christian and animist minorities. The beliefs of their humble may be as genuine and spiritual as anyone else on earth, but the philosophy, in the end, is to dominate and no amount of intellectual explanation, apologies and revisionism can change that.
You’re assuming that my statement was directed only at Tube’s list; it wasn’t. The thread has turned into blanket generalizations on all sides which leave me so shocked I can’t (and WON’T) comment further, as well as transforming into just as violent and genocidal, in spirit, as those that have commited the attrocities.
The only purpose all this has served is to reinforce my stead-fast, unshakable belief that religion is THE most evil force on the face of the earth.
I want no part of this.
Teri
Teri,
I understand your frustrations. Some people just don’t know enough about the world to have a balanced vision of things, it’s not really their fault. Yeah, religion is the most evil thing ever invented, and makes it so easy to commit crimes in the name of “God”, or “Allah”, or whatever.