Anyone have any idea how much an original late keyless Rudall costs now? And how do I get in touch with John Cornea?
Thanks in advance ..
Best wishes all,
Keith.
Jon Cornia
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=522
This has his email and Private Message.
Or Friend him on Facebook (Jon Cornia)
Thanks! I swear I looked in the membership list four times - once under C, and once under J, then both again … Ironically, I was in touch with him earlier this year and had his email address, then it must have disappeared in the transfer from my old, dead PC to my new one …
Thanks again.
Best,
Keith.
Out of curiosity, is there such a thing? The only original Rudall’s I’ve come across have all been keyed, in one system or another. Also, what do you mean by late? 1870s? Early 20c? These are questions completely out of curiosity, nothing else.
However, out of interest, I have a late Rudall (I think it’s a Rudall Carte & Co, but Jem would know better than me 
). It has 8 sterling silver keys and is in absolutely perfect, original condition. It even has its original case, though I don’t use it for fear of it falling apart (the leather hinge is broken already, as so many of them are). It’s probably of no use to you, Keith, as it’s in the UK and I wouldn’t want to ship it overseas. Also no use, I suppose, because it’s got keys.
Oh. I provided the contact info for Jon. As to the OP’s request for keyless, might he mean a modern “original” keyless flute, based on a later true Rudall (and adjusted if need be for improved tuning at A=440)?
Ah. Maybe. In which case, my confusion would have been the word “original”.
I read it the same way,
I have it on good authority from an email this morning that Rudall’s didn’t make keyless flutes. The nearest they got was a six key, apparently. So my hopes for an “original” Rudall keyless are dashed.
Now what? Am I doomed to a heavy keyed original Rudall? It’s no use looking for a contemporary version of a Rudall because I think I already have one of those if the measurements of my authoritatively voiced, sweet playing one-keyed circa mid 18th century Cocus and the comments of Chiffers is anything to go by. It’s got me itching to hear the “real”, “original” Rudall sound that everyone talks about. Once I do, maybe the one I’ve got will be the keeper I’m looking for. (I want to concentrate on just one “sweet” flute and one full volume flute).
Am I going to be doomed to keys? (Sob).
Thanks for everyone’s help. Much appreciated.
Best wishes,
Keith.
Keith, if you ever want to try an original keyed Rudall just to see what it’s like, I’d be happy to let you try mine. Jon C said that it’s one of those special Rudalls, and Patrick Olwell took its measurements when it was in his hands. I don’t go over to the island that often, but when I do I am en route to Chemainus, so in principle it would be possible to drop it off in Nanaimo on the way out, and pick it up on the way back. Or if you come to Vancouver, then let me know and we could see if we can meet.
It’s not as light as a Watson (thinned walls, and smaller keys), but it’s much lighter than my Morvan. I will say that working on hand and arm tension while piping has transferred to the flute, and now I don’t notice weight of the flute anymore. So if perchance you are looking for keyless for reasons of weight, this might be a sign that you could rethink the basics of holding and playing the flute. Of course, if you are looking keyless for other reasons, just ignore this comment.
Hugh
That’s a very generous offer, Hugh. Thank you very much. I would love to try your Rudall. Unfortunately I shall be out of the country for some time within a week, so wont be able to take you up on this great offer until I get back. But I do feel settled at the thought I shall at last be able to hear and feel that Rudall sound everyone talks about. What luck!
So far as keys are concerned, I have a romantic notion about playing a simple flute without the sophistications of keys, learning how to half hole and whatnot to achieve whatever the music or my tastes dictate: Simplicity in all it’s primal meanings. I have a one key, a four key, and an eight key flute, but have not yet taken to using their keys seriously. Perhaps the keyed Rudall will change my mind.
Thanks again Hugh. I shall be in touch.
By the way, I got that new large holed Olwell I was salivating for. I’m giving myself plenty of time to get used to it’s attributes. At the moment it sounds great for ITM dance tunes but that’s not all I play. Its tone sounds coarse compared to my more sophisticated Rudall type Cocus … For what it’s worth, I think a flute should sound like a flute: sweet, mysterious, with commanding volume but subtle harmonies that wet the eyes, raise the neck hairs, roil the stomach and set the heart in wonderous turmoil. (Someone get me a bucket of cold water …)
All the best,
Keith.
I suppose you could say Seamus Tansey plays an original keyless Rudall and Rose–he took the keys off and plugged up the holes (and sanded off the blocks?). So there’s always that route…
Yes, I forgot about that one! 
Tansey. Wasn’t he the one who used sultanas to plug the keyholes? In that Sam Browne belt he always looks like Rama of the Jungle. . .or like he just busted out of the harness of a full set of pipes. . .powerful fluting notwithstanding. 
Bob
Whomever is the info passer, pass on…4 Nov 1881 # 1283 started a run of x4 keyed flutes made by R.C. but these were only “band flutes” 
)
I have it on good authority from an email this morning that Rudall’s didn’t make keyless flutes. The nearest they got was a six key, apparently. So my hopes for an “original” Rudall keyless are dashed.
Neil B" How do you mean, “only ‘band flutes’”? What kind of flutes were they?
Best wishes,
Keith.
Sorry Keith it was a left cross at Jem & a couple of others who use this term & possibly think that these little military flutes are inferior to those 'orrible 8 or more keyed monstrosities:-)) Instead of pushing fruit in the holes after removing the keys, why not look for a x1 keyed fife or even keyless to start with, they range in size/pitch & are cheaper. I’ll take a look in my box of bits and see if I have any & if, will send you pics direct.
Neil B:
Have you heard of pruned flutes? Apparently the keyed Pratten type flutes with their larger finger holes require fatter fruit than sultanas or raisins for instance, so people started using prunes. Apparently when the prunes wizen up and threaten to drop into the flute we are advised to water them until they plump up again. Most of our modern flute craftsmen apparently do a roaring trade in these prune flutes without any advertising, though Terry McGee, the Copleys, Olwells, Casey Burns and even Jon C for instance will vehemently deny it, for reasons best known to themselves. Just ask them and see … I’ve never seen a prune flute myself, but I’m told they play very sweetly, and that the bores can be moistened with custard, though that seems a bit far fetched.
All the best,
Keith.
Have only found a x4 keyed Hawkes F flute, so no use I suspect therefore good luck with your hunt and suggest you look through the posts again regarding blocking the keyed holes…maybe try some carrots, they’re good for the vision so I’m told.
Neil B:
Thanx.
So far as blocking the tone holes is concerned, this implies taking the keys off. I don’t think I could bear the reputation of being, THE MAN WHO TORE THE KEYS OFF A RUDALL …
Best wishes,
K.
At least there’d be no chance of a pruned flute sounding constipated. You could even start an extreme new super-fast and waspy-roaring playing brand using a different laxative: ladies & gents, I give you the Airtone Senna…
Tansey is just a vandal.
Neil is such a hypersensitive soul. There’s nothing inferior about Rudall Carte band flutes. It’s a technical, functionally descriptive term, not a qualitative one.