opinions solicited re: teachers

Irish Flute
1

I haven’t noticed much discussion of the merits of instruction on the flute board. I’ve identified a teacher who’s pretty close to me and who’s been recommended by someone I respect. I’ll definitely be taking at least a handful of lessons.

My question is: How good do you think someone of average talent can get on the flute without instruction? And, if one is not planning on taking very many lessons, at what level will they give the most benefit? I waited till I was well into the intermediate range for whistle lessons, and found the timing very good. I’m not anywhere near intermediate on the flute, though.

I know people will question why I plan on only a few lessons. I’m only free to take lessons in the winter. If things go well, I’ll make the winter lessons an annual event.

2

Charlie, the answer to your question depends on how hard you work, your own natural abilities, and what other resources you have beyond a teacher. But getting a (good) teacher, even for a few lessons, is a great idea in any case. As you say, it’s advice not often discussed this forum.
Many great players went far without teachers, but usually this was/is because they were/are surrounded by other great players, grew up in the tradition, in many cases with a parent that plays. Jack Coen (my teacher, for a year or so) always advised me to play only with people better than I am. Good advice, but hard to accomplish, unless you live in a major trad city, preferably in Ireland. Otherwise, you often find yourself surrounded by mediocre players you either learn bad habits from, or you outgrow quickly.
So, if you’re not surrounded by a rich abundance of great(er) players than yourself, a good teacher will do wonders. Even just a few lessons will get you over some really monumental humps that might take months or years crossing otherwise.
Gordon

3

I think having a teacher is especially useful at the beginning, to get you started correctly and to prevent you from falling into bad habits that are difficult to un-learn later.

I also think it’s really useful to see a teacher after you’ve been playing a few years and have started to develop your own style. The teacher can then help you fine-tune your playing.

It’s also a good idea to study with more than one teacher (not at the same time, but at different stages in your development as a flute player). Everyone has different ideas about how the flute should be played, and I find it helpful to be exposed to other approaches and techniques. It can be confusing when dogmas conflict, of course, but there’s a lesson in that as well.

4

I totally agree with the earlier post: here in the States most of us don’t have lots of sessions with great players. We don’t have masters to sit next to and soak stuff up from. Even if we go to Willie Week or wherever, the other 51 weeks of the year we’re often on our own. That’s a lot of time to either make progress or get stuck.

Fortunately, we do have recordings. And Scoiltrad is great. But I still think there are points where you really ought to spend some human time with good players. For example: I figured I was intermediate/moderately advanced when I took a one-day workshop, my first of the sort, with John Skelton last spring. I knew a bunch of tunes, was able to get a reasonable sound, was able to keep up in a session, and was pretty comfortable with my flute overall. In fact, I thought I wasn’t half bad, if nothing else 'cause I could play really, really FAST. :laughing:

BUT. Even those few hours made me realize how completely clueless I was – especially about, as John says, “Making the listener say ‘What a great tune!’ instead of ‘What a good player.’” So now I drive about 3 hours round-trip for lessons with him (I’m lucky; there are people who drive 6 & 7), and the things I’m learning are amazing. I suppose you could call a lot of it nuance and theory (i.e., the finer points of the fling, how to vary a tune, forward -vs- backward rolls, finding the right feel for a tune, etc.), but there’s also a lot of “Hey! How do you do THAT?”

Bottom line: it really, really helps just to have someone in the know listen to you PLAY (and it sure beats just talking about playing :wink: ). After a while, they get to know your style, and they can help you avoid all kinds of pitfalls – if nothing else because they’ve already been through them themselves.

So while there are more than a few days when I miss being blissfully ignorant, overall I’m all for lessons, workshops, seminars, etc. – basically, I think we’d be crazy not to seize any chance we can get to play with/for people better than ourselves.

Okay, that’s it. Now I’m gonna take Sonja’s avatar advice again … :smiley:

Cheers!
cat.

P.S. Even if there’s no Irish flute player in someone’s area, I think beginners won’t hurt from a few lessons with a Boehm teacher – a good embouchure and good basics are a good embouchure and good basics no matter what kind of flute you’re playing.

5

Man… a teacher would be cool… but I’d just settle for someone to have a tune with. Playing with dead irishmen on the stereo is cool and all :roll: :roll: , but I really need to find someone to play with. SO… I would appreciate any input on teachers or players in or around Jacksonville, FL or the surrounding area (Gainesville, Tallahassee), Just venting a little
bgb Jacksonville, FL

6

Oh, bgb, I know. I think we have 10 whole Irish musicians in KY – and probably half of them are Bluegrass crossovers – but I know how lucky we are compared to folks in lots of other places (like my friend in Sioux Falls, SD for example). Anyway, have you checked the woodenflute.com (I think that’s Brad’s site?) Instructor List to see if there’s anyone around you? Also, sometimes thesession.org has listings of sessions in various places. I have to drive an hour minimum for anything here, but most times it’s worth it. And of course, if you go anywhere for business or pleasure, try to see if you can schedule a lesson or find a session in the area where you’re going.

Meanwhile, my fella’s an Irish fiddler whose Mom lives in Gainesville – so PM me your particulars and I’ll have him look you up next time he’s down there if you want a few tunes. I know he’s always up for some!

all best,
cat.

7

Make it 11, John Skelton lives in KY.

Eddie

8

Bad news, I did count him. In fact, he & I neatly define the best & worst Irish flute playing in the state…and guess who would be the best?

All I can say is, thank God he gives lessons – and that he’s such a very, very patient man.

9

The following link should help you out with the talent question. The article was written regarding children but adults should learn a lot too. Here it is: Scientists Dismiss ‘Talents’ As Myths.
A more in depth look at the subject can be found at this link: Innate Gifts and Talents: Reality or Myth?

Cheers,
Aaron

10

There’s a great flute player named Larre Reeves who lives somewhere in Florida. I used to see him every year at the Augusta Irish Week in West Virginia back when Jack Coen was teaching flute there. This would have been back around the years 1990-96 or so. I haven’t seen Larre since then, but I know he’s still around and still playing and also teaching, since from time to time over the past several years I’ve run into students of his at various physical or Internet meeting points. Like I said, he’s somewhere in Florida although I’m not sure exactly where, so he may or may not be near you. But he’d be well worth seeking out!

11

Well, then my conjecture above that I’m of average talent is definitely true – we all are. :slight_smile:

I read the article and glanced at the paper, and I think there’s a kernel of truth to it but they take their claims way too far. For example, one of the supporting facts is Mozart didn’t write a masterwork till he’d had 16 years of instruction. But the number of people who had 16 years of intense instruction, but never wrote a masterwork at all is much greater than those who did. But Mozart is kind of an exception to everything.

There are also all those people who peaked young, after years of instruction, but before years more. If perspiration is infinitely more important than inspiration, one would expect creative people to improve throughout their lives/careers.

Einstein peaked in his twenties, and was mostly self-taught in mathematics.

The other thing that I take issue with is that the authors don’t consider motivation, especially self-motivation, an aspect of talent. I absolutely agree that 99% of geniuses are made, not born, but I also think it takes a special person to cultivate his own talent.

12

Teachers are a very good idea, no doubt about it.

I believe it was Capa Blanca, one of the chess greats,
whose father used to take him at age four or five
to the chess club. The child would sit on his
father’s lap while his father played–his father
being quite good. One day the boy said: ‘Not
that move, Daddy!’ The father, amused, set
up a board and challenged his son, who
beat him.

My father, also a strong chess player, had me
sit on his lap while he played at the club. One day I
said: ‘Not that move, Daddy!’ He set up a
board and challenged me. I tried to
eat his Queen. Then I thew up all over the
board. I don’t believe the study. Best

P.S. I forgot to mention that I was 35 at
the time.

13

Chas, I assume your talking about Rob here, heres my opinion:
I suggest you get a lesson with him as soon as possible. Record as much of the lesson as you can, ask him to go over the main areas you are weak in, and give you some good examples for your tape about what hes talking about. Then study the heck out of the points he went over for say two months(or maybe 12 in your case) and then come back for another round.

You don’t really need regular lessons, because you can’t really make significant progress in a couple weeks anyway.

But do go ASAP, after you get past the beginner stage, you can only go so far I feel before you’re just drilling in what you already know, getting better at mediocrity in sense, you want new ideas and more importantly warnings of bad technique that you are probably getting stuck on right now :boggle:

Well there you have it, my opinion.

14

Bingo! Motivation is key. It doesn’t matter whether talent is real or whether or not you have enough of it. If you want to do something and you have the means, go for it. You influence how good you become no matter how much talent you have.

Cheers,
Aaron

15

What about a complete, and I mean complete newbie? I’m getting good tone and I can play through the lower octave no problem. I’ve been learning Danny Boy and have been able to switch to the higher octave when needed, but other than that I don’t really know anything. I had thought that since I’m an adult beginner that maybe lessons every three weeks or so would be best, but so far the teachers I’ve talked to only do every week. Should I get as far as I can by myself and then find someone, and do what you describe above?

Thanks,
Tony

16

Take some lessons now, so that you will
start right–can save you relearning lots
of stuff later. But I agree that lots of lessons
aren’t so important. Sort of get in position
to play, then play for awhile, then take
another lesson. That’s my view, anway.

17

Weekly lessons are the norm for most instruments. Even if you are an adult beginner and think you’ll make such slow progress that weekly is too frequent, you will make progress.

Whereas young folks learn things seemingly instinctively, adults are more hesitant with their instincts. Plus there’s the physiological reality of less dexterity and stamina.

Young people need weekly lessons because that’s how fast they can learn and improve and adults need weekly lessons because they need frequent guidance.

So unless weekly doesn’t fit into your family and/or work schedule (which is another common hurdle for adult beginners), take advantage of the oppurtunity.

Cheers,
Aaron