If anyone out there also has an Olwell Nicholson flute, then I’d be interested to know the cork position relative to the centre of the embouchure.
In my flute this distance is approx 13mm, and looking in at the cork from the stopper it looks like its been pushed in by approx 8mm at some point. I’m guessing this since there is a ring mark on the inside of the headjoint where the cork might have been before. (its not the ring mark from the stopper, as thats also there but not as deep in). The bore diameter of my flute is approx 19mm.
I only thought to look at this after my flute teacher suggested pushing the cork out a bit.
As JD and Terry basically say, one head bore width back from the center of the embouchure hole is the rule-of-thumb location. However, as for ITM we rarely venture far into the 3rd 8ve and as taking the stopper back a bit further enriches the tone and strength of the low register without upsetting tuning save with regard to that 3rd 8ve, it is worth experimenting with taking the stopper face back another 2-3mm, to about 22mm. This is what Chris Wilkes recommends.
NB, whatever anyone else may tell you, moving the stopper cannot and will not alter the tuning of the scale within one octave - you can’t e.g. use stopper adjustment to “cure” a flat low D or a sharp A - I’ve known folk potch about at that sort of thing for ages under the misapprehension that it will achieve something… Stopper adjustment only affects the relative tuning between octaves (the “width” of the octave) and ease and quality of tone production at the extremes of the flute’s tessitura - hence pull it back for ITM where we want that rich & reedy bottom end and don’t need the top end, push it well in for Charanga style playing where the 3rd and 4th 8ve altissimo register are most used and the bottom end is mostly ignored.
“…it is worth experimenting with taking the stopper face back another 2-3mm, to about 22mm. This is what Chris Wilkes recommends” Jemthe flute.
Thanks Jem, I didn’t know that. I’ll give it a go this evening. Would setting the stopper at around 22 mm affect, flatten, the second octave upper notes, or not? This is on a Wilkes with a patent head. I’ll see what happens
“See my previous post! Moving the stopper cannot alter the tuning within any given octave, only the width of octave jumps.” jemtheflute.
I understand that the stopper does not “alter tuning within the octave”, but what do you mean by “width of octave jumps”?
I’m just wondering if pulling back the stopper to enhance the bottom notes in the 1st octave will influence, flatten or sharpen notes in the second octave in relation to the first octave?
I think Terry’s page linked above should clarify. Clearly moving the stopper in or out will make any given octave jump wider or narrower, so yes, logically the notes at each end of that jump are getting sharper or flatter, but this is virtually imperceptible in the middle octave. If you just choose a note anywhere in the flute’s range and play it and shove the stopper too and fro while checking your pitch with a tuner, you won’t see much change, if any. No, pulling the stopper moderately to enhance low tone will not knock the 2nd 8ve or any part of it noticeably out - Try it!
At home and I’ve just tried it and yes, a noticeable difference in sound, for the better, heavier and stronger . Thanks jemtheflute for the passing on Chris’ recommendation. When I got the flute I had no experience with patent heads and I screwed back and forth thinking it was another way of adjusting the tuning. Now the flute is honking like an crazed Olwell on steriods
Wow! Moved the stopper from 13mm to approx 21mm … what a difference! Its louder and more responsive.
I guess playing with the stopper where it was has been good training for my embrouchure. I’ve only been playing for 9 months, so I still have a long way to go, but I can now just about honk with low D (compared to with just an F# with the stopper at 13mm)
Cheers everyone (and, of course, Tom, my new flute teacher)
Ian
I didn’t have computer access yesterday, but following/re-reading this thread on my mobile phone the above to quoted posts struck me…
A) So far as I know (I could be wrong) Chris has never tried to make a R&R Patent Head. I’m pretty sure he’d have mentioned it to me had he done so. Mind, if anyone today was to try, he’d be the man… I don’t think anyone save R&R ever made them or anything close to similar, and no modern repro maker has done so either to the best of my knowledge - too damn complicated and not in demand - it would be a labour of love and obsessive interest! Chris is certainly familiar with R&R originals and has worked on them, mine included.
B) Steampacket seems to imply that he can move his stopper independently of any adjustment to the tuning slide. That is not possible in a R&R Patent Head (the whole point of them!). Check out Terry’s page on Patent Heads to see exactly what they are. So I surmise that there is a misunderstanding here - I guess Steampacket has a normal adjustable crown & stopper but, perhaps being previously used to a simple cork stopper without an adjuster (of course you can still move and adjust the setting of the cork - just by cruder means), thought it was a PH? Chris most certainly routinely makes his flutes with crown adjusters. Here are pictures of a normal adjustable crown/stopper (from an H Fentum flute), which I guess is what Steampacket’s flute has:
Adjusting the stopper position is in the broad sense a method of adjusting the tuning, but not that of the general pitch of the instrument (tuning to concert pitch/A=440Hz/another instrument/s) nor yet of the pitch of any single note or of the temperament of the scale. It is to do with tuning the octaves and the reason the adjustable stopper is provided is to allow for such adjustments when making significant tuning adjustments using the long tuning slide (there to cope with wide pitch variations) on a Simple System flute. It is rarely necessary to adjust the stopper in a modern Bohm flute once it is set correctly for standard playing pitch and the individual player, although all modern flutes have the capacity to make such adjustments. If you significantly extend a tuning slide, you not only flatten the flute but also stretch the octave width - pushing the stopper in compensates for that; vice versa, if you shorten the playing length significantly to sharpen the flute, the octaves become too narrow, so you must pull the stopper back to restore true octaves. The real Patent Head does this for you automatically - at the cost of an expensive and heavy mechanism! Some antique flutes had graduation markings on slide and stopper finial to guide the player in making such adjustments, but it has always been expected to be done. Quantz wrote about it in the baroque era. So it is part of tuning a flute properly, but comes second to getting your general pitch right (by setting the tuning slide) and does not affect that. Just to hammer the point in again - fiddling with the stopper will not correct within-the-scale tuning discrepancies, e.g. a sharp A.
Today, however, with more-or-less standardised pitch at A=440, we don’t tend to need to make such extreme adjustments. And in ITM, because we don’t much use the third octave, we have more leeway to consider the effects of stopper position on tone production (outlined previously) and need worry less about having a stretched or compressed scale as it doesn’t show so much over just two octaves. However, individual embouchure and blowing style will affect how far in or out each player needs to set their tuning slide (how sharp or flat you blow) and so each player should ideally set their stopper position for their own normal (warmed up etc.) in-tune slide extension. Those who use corps de rechange to turn a D flute into a C or Eb flute should also reset their stopper when they make a joint swap.
Dear Jemtheflute,
My Olwell already plays as if it is an Olwell on steroids.
If I do move the stopper back to 21-22 mm will my flute develop gynecomastia?
Yrs faithfully,
JD
I’ve only ever got to try one Olwell - bepoq’s. it was stunningly good. I have no idea where he has the stopper set. I’ve never tried steroids.
If you’re happy with your current set up, why tinker; but if you shifted it back to try it, I’d be interested to know what differences you might notice, if any. After all, it’s easy to adjust and then adjust back! No boobs or cock-ups need result.
" a normal adjustable crown & stopper but, perhaps being previously used to a simple cork stopper without an adjuster (of course you can still move and adjust the setting of the cork - just by cruder means), thought it was a PH?" jemtheflute.
Nice to know what I have. As far as I know there is only one Rudall here in Sweden that is actually played, and it doesn’t have a patent head. My Wilkes has a very ornate metal crown, similar to that of a Rudall patent head, and is adjustable, so with only photos to go by and not having access to a “live” Rudall with a patent head or knowing how one works, I assumed that what I had was a patent head. Anyway the flute certainly sounds different, better to my ears, after adjusting the cork to 22 mm from the center of the embouchure hole. The Olwell sounds fine as it is so no need for any cork adjustment there.
. Thanks jemtheflute for the passing on Chris’ recommendation. When I got the flute I had no experience with patent heads and I screwed back and forth thinking it was another way of adjusting the tuning. Now the flute is honking like an crazed Olwell on steriods 
Moved the stopper from 13mm to approx 21mm … what a difference! Its louder and more responsive.
(and, of course, Tom, my new flute teacher)
although no harm done