Non-Liturgical Instrument?

My Neice asked me to play a reccesional tune on the pipes inside the church…No can do… as per Catholic rule --No Non liturgical instruments in the church…any help here???..Don’t bash the Church just give me guidance and information. Stay focused! Bite yer tongues and be positive …Not interested in flames. Pagans need not respond. :smiley:

Not that I know anything to do with any church but I don’t really see the problem, I have heard pipes played at all sorts of masses, funerals etc in ctholic churches, it doesn’t seem to me you need dispensation forn the vatican (sorry that last bit was a bit of a reference to a song about Seamus Ennis being buried in Marrinan’s).

What country is that? Just curious. I’ve heard guitars, tambourines and all sorts of things in the USA.

First I’ve heard of this. I know that in Ireland the Catholic Church got strict with the rules for music for weddings - obviously “In a country churchyard” by Chris de Burgh was played once too often. I understand that only religious music was allowed thereafter for weddings. I’ve never heard of a rule against instruments.

In fact, I believe that the musical director of Clarendon St. church in Dublin is a piper and plays pipes instead of church organ on St. Patrick’s day. At least that was the case in the late 1990 when I was living in Dublin.

I have also heard of the non liturgical music prohibition, even in the USA.

Weren’t some form of Scottish Smallpipes originally used as a liturgical instrument - for choir practise or something?

djm

I serve as a music director for my Catholic Parish. The only requirements that we have for the incorporation of instruments into a service is that they must project well, play in tune and create a tone that is in keeping with the reverence of the mass. Seems like the only thing you may have a problem with is the just intonation of the pipes, unless you go solo. It would also appear that there are regional differences as to these rules. To be sure, you should ask the pastor or at least the music director of that parish to be sure. :thumbsup:

I’m currently working with some friends on a collaboration between uilleann pipes and church organ (sadly I’m not going to be playing). They sound great together. There’s virtually no difference in tuning. Although that probably depends on the pipes in question. As far as compatibility goes, the church organ is set to oboe and the volume is turned down a bit. Sounds great.

Just to reinforce some of the above posts, I’ve played for many catholic weddings. The pipes weren’t an issue. It’s really down to the local parish priests and music directors; as long as they’re OK you have no problems. If they’re worried about you performing “secular” music, you can work with all concerned to select appropriate tunes.

Hmmm…yes, seems to be some confusion from whoever was the contact at the Church over liturgical music vs a liturgical instrument.

I quote from MUSIC IN CATHOLIC WORSHIP, Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy, United States Catholic Conference, 1972:

"In the dioceses of the United States, musical instruments other than the organ may be used inliturgical services, provided that they are played in a manner that is suitable to public worship. This decision deliberately refrains from singling out specific instruments. Their use depends on circumstances, the nature of the community, etc. "

You can read the whole thing at:
http://www.liturgy.net/body_doc_ref/MICW/body_micw.html

You may wish to share this with someone at the Church prior to the Wedding! It should clear things up. Also, it would be well within the rights of whoever is in charge of the music at church to ask that a suitably liturgical piece be played on the pipes.

I had pipes at my wedding and I have played for many weddings myself. There never was any problem with this. I wish you luck!!!

Paul

From their point of view, the Church wants to hear only liturgical music in the church. Fair enough.

They are trying to avoid hearing things like Danny Boy, Notre Dame Fight Song, someones favorite drinking song, etc. Same goes for eulogies - churches often require that they be ‘faith-based’.

You should not have too much of a problem playing a recessional. You can clear it in advance or just do it.

There you have it.

It’s up to the Pastor. It surely isn’t a “Catholic rule”, as you’ve seen in the previous replies that Upipes have indeed been played in Catholic Churches.

If the Pastor says “No”, then you’re fighting city hall.

I’d recommend against following the latter bit of advice here “Just do it.”

If the bride/groom or their parents happen to be members of that particular parish, and the Pastor has already indicated that they may not be played, you’d be putting the family/(ies) in hot water with the Pastor.

Get permission from the Pastor. If he says no, he means it.

Unless the rules have changed in the last couple of years I can’t see a problem. However, myself and a handfull of other musicians used to play on a regular basis before, during and after mass on Sundays. Me on pipes (UP’s) and the rest of the motley crew played fiddle, madola, mandolin, guitar, flute & whistle. Only once did we have a problem with the priest and that was one from another parish who was standing in. He seemed to be under the impression he was doing US a favour :astonished: .
Do show some sensitivity however and stick to something "hymnal"in sound even if it isn’t a hymn. We always found the O’Carolan tunes a good compromise.
Joseph (the UK one) :wink:

As an ex catholoony ,and having played at countless weddings in churches of different hues,I feel qualified to join the debate,Pagan o no!..I find the topic bizzare.The more so as the Irish pipes were used a lot in Ireland where the parishes could not afford an organ.**If the PP doesnae want them played thats it!**So what is the point of the topic?
What counts these days as an liturgical instrument anyway? if ye trawl through various religous works of art ye will find many instruments being used. :boggle:
PS I find your reference instructing Pagans not to respond offensive :wink: by inference suggesting that we would have no useful input to this debate..that’s not very christian is it.??.."Ahm a wright ahm a wrang???
Slán Agat

Checking with the Pastor is a possibly unnecessary step as the priest performing the marriage can decide for himself. Pastors do determine local policy, though, and it may be necessary to clear it with him.

If you were to play a recesssional that had not been cleared (my skip-the-asking-for-permission recommendation), you might get an Almighty stare from the priest later on but that’s about it. As long as the music is relatively benign and fitting, you and he will get over it.

Highland pipes have been relegated to the nave of the church mostly as clearly not having liturgical roots or even those pretensions.

If asked, tell the priest that you’ll be playing music that has often been part of liturgies in Ireland and that you believe it to be very appropriate for this ceremony.

I got married in a registry office in Ireland. My wife and I were told that we could have music, but we were asked to keep it secular!!

During the “Great Blackout” two summers ago, I played uilleann pipes for the Aug. 15 Holy Day masses in my parish. There was no piano in the church, and the organ wasn’t going anywhere without electricity. The priest was from the Phillipines and was glad enough to have music. After the mass, he thanked me and said he had read that bagpipes are
included in a list of liturgic instruments, but he had never understood how they would be used until now.
Later that summer, I played the dedication of a new church and Cardinal Maida of Detroit was the celebrant. He thanked me and told me what a nice touch the pipes were for the mass. I half joked and said, “A couple of priests in the area would beg to differ, as they won’t let me play in their churches.” He said I have permission to play in any church as long as he’s Cardinal and if any priest gives me trouble, have them call him. Usually, it takes a fair bit of graft to get that kind of dispensation.
It seems the main problem your having is with a specific priest. If you gently remind him that the vatican has no problem with you, he may relent his self declared infalability. Just don’t play “The Sash” at mass. :stuck_out_tongue:
Marc

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I’ve played in Catholic churches exclusively, weddings, funerals, Christmas and memorials. There is a general prohibition on “non-liturgical music” but there’s no such thing as a “non-liturgical instrument.” There is no mention of such a thing in the recently released GIRM (General Instruction of the New Roman Missal) that I have in my hand. An instrument may not be used every sunday, but play a hymn on it and it is a “liturgical instrument” (whatever that means)

I have found that many churches shy away from allowing bagpipes in the building - a number outright prohibit it. However, this is usually because their sole experience with bagpipes are GHB during weddings and funerals. I have never met a music director that has even heard of the UP and have had to audition them in the church each time to prove that they are acceptable for indoor use, won’t blast the congregation out of their seats etc. I’ve never had a problem after doing that. Even vocal or written explanations with pictures don’t seem to get it through to people that this is unlike their only frame of reference. They typically need to hear it for themselves…

my guess is they heard the word bagpipes, thought of GHB and came up with a reason they thought you couldn’t argue with to say no.