Next Step Intermediate Flute

Irish Flute
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Hi all,

I’m interested in any input regarding the sort of “next step” in terms of what to go for regarding an intermediate flute. I currently own a Delrin Galeon Rudall & Rose model, however I’m interested in moving to a keyed flute. Something I can comfortably put at least a few years into, before potentially moving to a high end “final” instrument.

As a bit of backstory, I have about 30 years of classical playing experience, with a then approx 10 year haitus from playing entirely and am now about a year into returning to the instrument, but specifically only playing simple system Irish flute/ITM.

I initially tried out a Galeon Pratten model but found the stretch just a bit too much for my hands, playing scales was fine, but ornamentation/rolls down to the low D was just uncomfortable for me after being so used to Boehm style flutes, so realistically looking for a R&R model again, also potentially still in Delrin as I’m out in Colorado and the lack of humidity here makes me worry about maintaining a wooden flute succesfully without it cracking or breaking.

I’m aware flute makers like Copley & Boegli might be a good fit, Davids 6 key in Delrin sounds like it might be just the fit for me (although realistically not “intermediate”), but I’m interested to see if anyone has any other suggestions as to what to potentially look for as a next step.

Either way many thanks for any suggestions at all with this.

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I’m also in Colorado and I don’t worry about owning a wooden flute. Just keep it in a tupperware box with a guitar humidifier; the storage humidity will remain around 50%. Say hello as I get to some of the Denver or Northern Colorado sessions.

Check with the Irish Flute store as they have several good flutes at the moment, including a one-key from Noy and Holmes-McNaughton, a 4-key Sam Murray, not to mention a keyless Wilkes. Prices at the IFS correspond to quality and desirability; read the descriptions and disclaimers carefully. Monitor the IFS website or get on the early-notification list. Really good or desirable flutes often sell immediately on the email announcement.

Of note: A one-key flute allows you to play the Eb/D# which is an occasional accidental in Irish Music, but it also opens up the E note, and helps with the third register notes up to C, C#, D, E and Eb. (Most ITM players turn the low foot around and ignore the Eb key entirely. If I understand correctly, a Boehm flute player is accustomed to using the right pinky finger.)

The more important questions might be Pratten vs Rudall, and modern vs historic.

I’m a Rudall guy, and love, love, love my 1840s R&R. My preference is due to the efficient air use, harmonic overtones and medium sized holes. Pratten players like power & volume which may come at the cost of needing more air. I have difficulty with the air needs, the huge finger holes, and intonation management on the Pratten style flutes, but YMMV.

Regarding modern vs historic embouchures. My R&R is spectacular but requires a focused, precise embouchure. If I put on a modern headjoint, let’s say an Olwell or Jay Ham, I find a bit more volume with an easier or more generous effort - less precise focus is required.

The best buys in historic 8-key flutes are 1830-40s English flutes that do not have the brand name “Rudall & Rose”, for example Wylde, Ingram or other craftsmen from the Willis “Villiers Street” workshop.

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Many thanks for the reply, also very interesting that the humdity doesn’t seem to be an issue, that’s very good news indeed, hadn’t even thought of just keeping it airtight with a humidifier!

I will keep checking on the Irish Flute Store, I did actually end up buying this Galeon from Blayne and he was kind enough to also make the exchange from the Pratten model to the R&R which was a real help for me after fighting the stretch on the Pratten.

Ah yeah, on the Boehm flutes we vent the Eb pretty much all the time for various things, but it is interesting to hear on the simple system it can clean up the E natural, as it’s very fuzzy and soft in comparison on mine at least.

Yeah, so far I have really been enjoying the R&R sound in general, the Prattens sound fantastic, but there is something that feels a little more r

efined/sweeter on the Rudall’s which I do love, I guess its part of my bias/preference coming from a classical background, I also do love the amount of harmonics it can achieve.

Huge thank you for all the input on this, especially the period of English flutes and the makers without the R&R branding, that’s incredibly useful to know as I wasn’t really aware of them, nor had I considered buying a historical flute and potential rennovation, which might really be a great avenue, as it was with your flute.

Thanks again, really appreicate your help!

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What do you mean by “intermediate?” What are you not getting out of this flute that you want to get out of a flute? I have not played a Galeon flute, but I hear generally good things about how they play. Is there something in particular that makes you feel like you need to “upgrade?”

I ask because “upgrading” in the Irish flute world is not necessarily a straightforward concept. Unless your flute is actively defective in some way, getting a new flute is much more about what your preferences are and what you want to get out of a flute. It is not the case that you simply “get what you pay for.” You mentioned Copleys; I’ve owned a couple of them and they are great flutes, better than many that cost 2x as much or more in my opinion. But that’s just it, it’s my opinion, and other flute players have other opinions. I’ve swapped flutes with players at sessions and hated their flute, but they love it and that’s what matters. I’m sure some people have hated mine (although they’ve all been polite enough not to say as much!).

If you have the opportunity, I might suggest thinking about this exactly the opposite way from how you’re thinking now. Keep playing your flute, and in the meantime, if you’re out at a session, ask to play any other flutes that might show up. Eventually, you’ll come across a flute that you’ll want to buy, and that’ll be your answer. That’s what happened to me; I currently play an Olwell Pratten flute, and I bought it because I tried another player’s out and thought “this is exactly what I want.” So far no other flute has knocked it off its throne, but if and when that happens, I’ll go out and get that one instead.

Otherwise, all you’re going to get in a thread like this is various suggestions of other people’s favorite flute makers, which may or may not align with what you actually want. To which I’ll add that if I was looking for a R&R-type flute, I would check in with Jil Lehart or Terry McGee, both of whose R&R-style flutes I’ve enjoyed playing and who have relatively short waiting lists, as far as I know. But that’s just my preference, and there are a whole host of other great makers out there using that basic R&R concept.

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Many thanks for the reply! You’re right, “intermediate” is probably a poor choice of words here. There is nothing wrong per say with the Galeon at all and I am very much enjoying playing it. I think the main element I was looking for is to move to a keyed flute, probably a 6 key just simply as having something chromatic is more what I was previously used to and being able to circumvent things like the weaker E or C natural would be nice vs the open holes. Also something still within the R&R design. Also you’re absolutely right on the subjective nature of flutes and it is something that I keep coming across where it’s obviously very much a personal preference, same as it was for classical flute.

Getting out and being able to try different flutes would be ideal and I will def. try to do so before commiting on anything as its next to impossible to know what a flute feels like without playing it. It’s a very different experience buying an Irish flute to Classical in which I could walk into JustFlutes or AllFlutes and try pretty much their entire stock, but with Irish flutes being so specialized its a lot harder for sure. Was just interested to hear others opinions on flutes that might fulfill those critera, such as Terry McGee and the Jil Lehart you mentioned which is a great addition to look at. Many thanks again, appreciate the insight on this!

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Getting out to a session where you know a flute player or two will be there really helps, provided any are near enough for you to get to.

One thing to keep in mind, not all pratten derived flutes have the same finger spacing/hole sizes.

I have an 8 key delrin Copley that is great. I have owned nearly all the delrin/polymer flutes out there, and Dave’s flutes are top notch, period.

I would call an M&E 6 key flute an intermediary level flute. Less than a grand and not a huge hole stretch at all…based on R&R flutes. They are a tad heavy, the key work isn’t gorgeous (but they are functional and ergonomic keys), and they have a good sound. Michael who makes them is a super nice guy to correspond with.

Francois Baubet makes a super nice keyed delrin flute, but they are priced fairly close to a 6 key Copley.

Good luck on your journey! Most of us just read the forum for advice like you are doing and go through multiple flutes before finding what we love.

While cracking wood is less of a worry than you fear, it IS exceptionally nice to never have to worry about your flute ever cracking if it’s delrin.

Eric

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Hi Eric,

Thanks so much for the reply, really appreciate it. Hadn’t got Francois Baubet on my radar so that’s a great extra addition to the list too, many thanks. I did take a look at M&E but again, with all of this and the suggestions above it seems I really need to try get out there and try some of them to be sure if they are a fit. Thanks so much again, really helpful input!

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