Newbie with low D whistle/flute questions...

Whistle
1

I am new to whistles, and have been practicing on two soprano D whistles (Freeman tweaked Clarke Sweetone, and a Susato Kildare). I want to learn the low D, but saw in several different places recommendations that I start with a soprano D first. I am glad I did; I could afford to buy two different styles, and I needed an easy instrument. I played (Boehm) flute for years, and left it years ago- and, sadly, reading and playing music is NOT like riding a bike… I’m back to ‘hot cross buns’. I am progressing rapidly, though, and having fun with it.

My questions are: is low D so very hard to play? I am wishing I could get started on it now, since the soprano D is higher than I like. I have seen whistles that can also come with a flute head- how does that change the tone? Is the reach on a low D really hard to, well, reach? I have seen an ‘easy reach’ low D (The Whistlesmith, Mountain Made). Does anyone know about these particular whistles? And, is there a low D that you would recommend to a newbie? (I expect lots of differing opinions on that last one…)

Any information and advice would be greatly appreciated!

2

But you did play the flute, didn’t you? :slight_smile: Maybe it doesn’t change the tone per se… but a whistle head has a fixed voicing, whereas you can change the tone of the flute with your embouchure (soft to hard, quiet to loud etc.). Most importantly, a whistle has to be blown harder to reach the 2nd octave, and thus is much louder up there; furthermore, each note requires a precise amount of breath pressure to be in tune, so there’s no way to adjust intonation without affecting volume (and no way to adjust volume at all without messing up the tuning). With a flute head you’re more versatile regarding timbre, volume and intonation. And a horizontally held flute is easier to reach BTW.

Sorry, I have no experience with those duo-head whistles. But intuitively I’d consider an additional flute head for a whistle (which is designed as such in the first place) to be rather a kind of a gimmick.

3

When I started on a Low D three years back I had no previous experience of a wind instrument and though I tried a high whistle too, I’ve come to the conclusion they are different instruments. If you want to play a Low D then go for it. It will be harder in terms of breath requirements and fingering (using piper’s grip) but not impossibly so. Progress I think is a bit slower on a low whistle but if you choose the right one you won’t have problems in terms of stretch etc. I started on a Goldie, still my favourite low whistles, which sound wonderful but take a bit of taming. Later my wife bought me a Dixon tapered bore Low D and that’s the one I would suggest you start out on. It’s cheap, light, easy to play, quite quiet, breath requirements are not excessive and the tapered bore brings the holes closer together. It’s a great first Low D whistle and mine sits by my home desk for when I want to work out a tune since it doesn’t take much warming and its lightness means I won’t knock any teeth out with it if I accidentally catch the desk!!

I think it’s better you learn to play low whistle using piper’s grip than going for a whistle that allows you to use your fingertips. The reason is that all best low whistles require piper’s grip and therefore moving up to a more expensive whistle will be much less problematic if you’re already using piper’s grip. Hope that helps.

Oh, one last thing. The design of the head is such that if you want to have to blow harder and use less air, it’s easily tweaked with a thin piece of card. The tweak is described somewhere on C&F. It’s a fantastic whistle that has a lot going for it.

4

I just started on whistles a few months ago, and started on a Dixon low D. My fingers aren’t particularly long, but I didn’t have too much trouble getting going. Just like any instrument it takes some work.
The good part about starting on low whistle is that if you move to a tinwhistle, you’re amazed by how easy it is (at least that’s how it worked out for me).
To answer your question, low D is not “so very hard to play” but it’s harder than the soprano whistle.

5

First low whistle?
What do you want to spend is the question.
The lowest priced one, that I know of is a Becker.
http://www.beckerwhistles.com/low-d-whistle.html
I bought an alto G Becker, I consider it an exellent value, but not a world beater.
On the high end of the price spectrum, Goldies, Reyburns, Brackers, Burkes, etc.
I like my MK Kelpie and think its a good low for a first timer, if its in your budget.

6

Oh, yay- answers!! I’m so glad to see this is an active community! I don’t have any music shops where I can try any whistles, so I was hoping to get some good feedback here.

Megapop- yes, I did play the flute- but had to quit, when braces changed my embouchure dramatically… curse the orthodontist that cured my overbite! :wink: I had been looking for an instrument to play for a while; I missed the ability to make music. I had considered picking the flute up and trying again, until I heard the low D whistle. It was so pretty, I knew:
I. Have. To. Play. THAT. I am seriously considering a Dixon, and a few are offered with flute and whistle heads. I’m intrigued.

Mikethebook- I am glad to hear that you really like your tapered bore Dixon- that’s one I’m looking at. Learning the piper’s grip is what I was concerned about; I’m not really using it on the soprano D. I think I’d rather start working on that right away! And thanks for the heads up on the tweak.

Calanthropy- thanks for letting me know how the piper’s grip is coming along. I admit, I had read so much about how hard it is, I was getting intimidated. Maybe I need to read a little less!

Maki- I was looking at around $100 for a low D. I’m pretty much just playing for myself, and not looking for a very expensive instrument. Although, I have heard that collecting whistles is a common affliction… and, a low D whistle for $18!!! You know I’m getting one, just out of curiosity! The reach on the lower 3 holes looks huge, but I’m going to give it a try, anyway. Please feel free to share any other great deals!

7

Low whistles are beautiful, but it takes some getting use to especially going from soprano d. If you’re not looking to play with others in a session setting, perhaps an A or Bb whistle can be a compromise with the high pitch of the soprano d as you can still play with your fingertips. If you want to proceed on low whistles, an F is a beautiful sounding one without too much of the concerns of the reach for the holes.

I too transitioned from boehm flute to whistle to low whistle, but recently went back to high Ds as ornamentations sound more clean and less muddled (they also tend to be heard in a session too)You’ll be able to play all the same ornamentations on either whistle but it’s easier to achieve those ornaments with your fingertips vs the pipers grip. With time, confidence, and practice, it really won’t matter which whistle you are comfortable playing on.

Cheers,

Melany

8

I think you should go for the low D, if that’s what you really want to do. I wanted to play low whistles as soon as I began. I did start with the high D for ease of fingerings and all (I still play it with some frequency, too), but quickly acquired a low G to help transition to a low D.
I am glad I have the G, but I could have skipped that one… I don’t play it much now that I have the low D I wanted all along.

And, speaking of whistle recommendations: I play an Alba and I love it, but it was a real challenge at first due to its large size and my tiny hands. A few months after I got it I had a chance to try the tapered Dixon, and I was amazed at how comfortable it is! I would probably have started with that one had I known it was so comfortable and easy to play, and may still acquire one anyway for more relaxed practice and quieter playing.
I totally recommend the Dixon tapered low D to start with.

Anyway, welcome to whistling and have fun! :slight_smile:

9

Oh sorry, that sucks. Anyway, if it is the low whistle you want I wouldn’t choose it on the basis of a questionable additional flute head. Rather listen to the dedicated low whistlers here, and best of luck!

10

If you want an easy-blowing ergonomic Low D, I’d try the Dixon Low D, all plastic, with the conical bore (second from top in the photo below). Its combination of pleasant tone, easy air requirement, light weight, narrow tube, and smaller and closer fingerholes makes it a joy to hold and play.

Flutes and whistles with a conical bore, where the bore strongly constricts around the place of the lower hand, have the lower-hand fingerholes closer together while still being at a good acoustic position.

A cylindrical (parallel or straight) bore requires the lower-hand fingerholes to be splayed further apart, if they are to be in an acoustically acceptable position. Beware of cylindrical-bore Low Ds that claim to be ‘easy’ or ‘ergonomic’ : these usually have the fingerhole positions different than the standard positions that all the major good Low Ds use. There’s a reason all great-playing Low Ds are very similar: you can’t defy the laws of acoustics!

Here you can see the Dixon and six different cylindrical Low Ds, and note how similar the fingerhole positions of the six are

1 old Susato keyless with angled neck
2 Dixon all-plastic two-piece conical bore
3 Reyburn with maple head
4 Reyburn with poly head
5 Burke Pro Viper alloy
6 Kerry Optima
7 MK tunable (like the MK pro but made before that designation was used)

You’ll note that all have Hole 6 smaller than Hole 5. Were Hole 6 to be acoustically ideal it would be the same size as Hole 5 and placed more or less exactly between Hole 5 and the bottom end. (It’s where that hole is on a Boehm flute.) Trouble is, nobody could reach the hole if it were way down there! So all the makers compromise (between the laws of acoustics and the human hand) by moving the hole rather further up than it should be, which makes the note too sharp, so the hole size has to be reduced to compensate. This results in a Low E on most Low D whistles which is weaker than its neighbors. Whistles I’ve tried which were called “easy” or “ergonomic” had Hole 6 even further up, even smaller, even weaker. You can’t fool Mother Nature!

The surprising thing to me is what an enormous difference in hand comfort is created by a rather slight difference in the hole spacing of the upper hand. In the photo above all the Low Ds, with one exception, are comfortable for me to play. The maple head Reyburn, with its upperhand holes only slightly larger and more widely splayed, is difficult for me to play. I wonder why the maple head Reyburn has the upperhand holes further apart than most Low Ds including another Reyburn.

11

I’ll just add a welcome to the whistle forum. Enjoy playing the whistle.

Read up as much as you can about the whistle(s) you’re considering and try out before purchasing if possible.

12

Pancelticpiper- thanks for all the info! That will definitely help, when picking an instrument. I did order a Becker, so I can give the piper’s grip a try. One thing I wonder about- everyone talks about reaching those bottom 3 holes; why don’t the whistle makers tell us exactly how far apart those are? I only saw one maker provide that number, because they were promoting their ‘easy reach’. I have seen makers provide the dimension from the very top hole to the very bottom, but that really doesn’t help. Maybe the whistle community should encourage the makers to give us those dimensions! :poke: In the nicest way possible, of course…

13

Thanks!

From an earlier thread, here’s my post giving the finger spreads of the whistles pictured in the above photo:

Comfort/ergonomics:
As I play Low Ds more and more I’m realizing that upperhand comfort, for me, seems to be hugely impacted by fairly small differences in tube fatness, hole spacing, and hole size.

The Dixon with its close, small holes and skinny tube is by far the most comfortable for me to play. The Susato and MK are next, with narrower-than-average tubes and smaller-than-average holes. A fat tube and far-flung big holes make my upper hand less comfortable.

Tube OD:
Susato .89 > Dixon (at C# hole) .91 > MK .96 > Reyburns/Optima/Burke .985

Upperhand finger spread/hole size measured from edge to edge, smallest > largest:
Dixon 3.12 > polyhead Reyburn 3.24 > Susato 3.28 > MK/Optima 3.31 > Burke 3.33 > maplehead Reyburn 3.46

The differences might seem small, but the difference in upperhand comfort between the MK and the maplehead Reyburn is huge.

BTW the lowerhand spread measured the same way:
Susato 3.16 > Dixon 3.18 > Optima 3.24 > maplehead Reyburn 3.25 > MK 3.26 > Burke 3.36 > polyhead Reyburn 3.4

Odd, isn’t it, how some whistles have among the biggest spread in one hand and the narrowest in the other. Would be nice to have the upperhand spread of the polyhead Reyburn and the lowerhand spread of the Optima. (The Susato’s placement is obviously not optimal tonewise.)

14

Thanks again, Richard!
I am going to keep track of this thread; those measurements on the spread of the holes will be very helpful. I have ordered a Becker whistle, so when I start learning the piper’s grip, I will have some measurements to compare to- both in bore size, and tone hole placement. It’s hard to tell, but the Becker looks bigger, all around. Might be tricky, we’ll have to wait and see. It seems like a small difference in size can make a huge difference in playing comfort.

I didn’t expect to get so much info so quickly, on a message forum- you guys rock. Kudos for supporting the newbies! I found some info on here about hitting the upper octave on my soprano D, that was extremely helpful, as well; I don’t suck as bad as I thought…
Thanks again, everyone! :thumbsup:
Lisa