I enrolled in a woodwind class at a local college and discovered that the instructor (though being an expert with a variety of instruments) is not too knowledgeable about keyless flutes. If I take the class on silver flute, how much of that experience can be migrated to Irish flute?
Not a whole lot. Any classes geared towards the Boehm flute will also not be geared towards trad playing. Wholly different technique and type of music. You’d be better off finding out if there are any trad. players in your area and see if they give lessons. Wherebouts are you located?
Corin
On the other hand, there’s a lot about controlling your embouchure and tone you can learn from a Boehm teacher. If you bring that knowledge to the wooden flute, you’ll have an enormous jumpstart.
Hey – what’s that noise? I’d swear it sounds like a can of worms opening.
I’m more in agreement with ro3b. At the early stages of flute playing, there’s a lot of work to do on embouchure, breathing, just basic tone production that is applicable in all cases.
If traditional music is what you really want to do, at some point you’ll want a traditional music teacher, but starting on a slightly different instrument is not a waste of time.
Good points, I assumed the poster was already playing the flute, so was familiar with those aspects of flute playing. If you are completely new to the flute, then you could certainly benefit from the basic instruction.
Corin
I’d have to say, that while a silver flute class may help introduce a learner to the rudiments of music, and also to breath control, the differences are probably so substantial that a class geared toward concert flute is probably negligible in its effect. It won’t hurt, but won’t help much either. So a waste of time? Well, maybe not, but an inefficient use of it – yes.
Some significant differences exist between the way wooden flutes are played in the Irish style as opposed to the normal concert style for the Bohem flute. Here’s a short (not exhaustive list)
Embochure – The embochure on a wooden flute is fairly different. The basic idea is the same, but achieving good tone on a Bohem flute does not guarantee a completely transferrable embochure to a wooden flute
Vibrato – In concert flute playing, this is done with the diaphragm. In Irish music it is done with the fingers (to mimic the vibrato of the uillleann pipes).
Articulation – Irish music: Cuts, rolls, crans, glottal stops – none of this will be incorporated, and (my opinion) I fell it is important to begin learning these early on in the development of playing the flute.
There are merits to the metal Bohem flute, and playing in that style, and an experienced silver flute player would pick up the irish flute faster, but if you want to play Irish flute, why not just learn that? Most Bohem concert flute teachers (as you experienced) will most likely know nothing about Irish music style, and may even tell you you’re doing something wrong!
Good luck finding a teacher near you.
Pelham
Thanks everyone! Very useful info. Instructors in keyless flute are not easy to find. I went to a popular sheet music store today - Byron Hoyt in San Francisco. Not a single book on keyless flute in the store - though the Grey Larsen book could be special ordered. I did pick up a copy of Rubank’s Elementary Method for Flute. I can already see that Boehm flute fingering is going to be very different. I hope that learning both metal and wood flutes doesn’t confuse my poor addled brain. 
Does anyone know if the Rubank exercises are good for keyless flute too?
“Cuts, rolls, crans, glottal stops – none of this will be incorporated, and (my opinion) I fell it is important to begin learning these early on in the development of playing the flute”
In Bill Och’s whistle tutorial, he recommends that ornamentation be postponed until the player is advanced - possibly even years later.
Is flute different in this respect - in that ornamentation should be started sooner rather than later?
to choose from invariably you’re going to have to go the silver flute route for a while. If you find one that can teach, often they don’t teach lessons. This is especially true if you’ve never played an insturment before. I think the hardest part about learning to play in the Traditional Irish way is learning to play from the ear and not having sheet music in front of you. Additionally it is difficult for someone to be able to decide what kind of wooden or polymer flute to get. It isn’t like they have any to test drive at your local music store. Any flutist who is half-good can easily learn the style and the ornamentation within a year. Go silver to start.
Headwizer,
First to let you know where I’m coming from, I’ve been playing Irish music on whistle and uillleann pipes for 7 years and on Irish flute a little less.
I have to disagree with Bill Ochs, but let me explain where I imagine he is coming from:
There are many beginners who attempt ornaments, and tunes which are really beyond their ability to play. They then take these tunes which are already too complicated for their skill level, and they choose to play them too fast, un-rhythmically, and without musicality. Its so tempting because they want to play fast, just like they hear on CDs and in performances, sessions, etc.
A beginner who goes down this road not only makes very little headway, he or she generally picks up extremely sloppy technique. Its hard to un-do bad playing habits – I know, I’ve had to do a few times and it can really be frustrating to go back to square 1.
That said, as a beginner I would sugest these things:
Long tones, long tones, long tones. This is sitting up straight, taking a deep breath, and playing a single note for as long as possible. While doing this, listen to the tone, and to the pitch and do your best to keep the tone right where you want it, and the pitch perfectly stable. It won’t be easy, and it will take a while.
Once you’re getting that ok, you can move on to simple tunes – use a tutor book which will have picked some appropriate ones for you. Simple tunes with not a lot of jumps or difficult runs in them are best. Play it SLOWLY. It is better to play it slowly and correctly than fast and sloppy. Remember not to forget tone and good pitch control while adding the tune.
You might learn a few basic tunes without ornaments, but pretty soon you should start learning cuts and rolls. They are basic basic rudiments of irish music. Other more complicated things can be left until later – I agree on this.
Now, you can and SHOULD add your ornaments (which you will have begun practing by themselves — SLOWLY AND CORRECTLY) into the tune. Play it with the ornaments, and do it slowly and don’t cheat yourself. Record yourself and listen to what you did and critique yourself harshly and fix problems. Don’t speed the tune up until you play it perfectly with the ornaments and everything.
Your first tune like this will probably take months to do correctly, but you’ll be on your way, and each tune will take less time. Take several years to learn to play correctly and don’t rush it. Father Michael Hogan who plays with me at a session every monday says think of it like the Tortoise and the Hare – if you plod along methodically and don’t become frustrated with your initially limited reperatoire, you’ll end up sounding better and ultimately being the player people want to listen to.
Whew, that was a long answer. Again – these are just my opinions.
On the tutor – get the Larsen one, it is awesome. The Rubank book won’t be much good for irish music, but they are good for dexterity exercises, but with a keyless Irish flute you’ll only be able to play the ones in D, and that don’t go below a low D.
Good luck!
Pelham
Thanks for that long reply, Pelham!!! It was very helpful.
I was wondering: does a simple flute with a full complement of keys (either 6 or 8 keys) have the same range and sound quality as a regular Boehm flute?
can play into the third octave on either wooden or silver flute. For me, it is easier to play into the third octave with a silver flute. My wooden keyless one really doesn’t go there. I don’t think I’ve seen an Irish traditional tune that plays into the third octave anyway. If you’ve never played flute before, I wouldn’t think you’d be able to play in the third octave for a while anyway. A good way to start is to get two insturments, a better used silver flute and a keyless wooden or polymer one. Going directly to a keyed wooden flute could be very costly for something you might end up not liking.
just an opinion…
lack of knowledge about your instrument, and probably about itrad fluting in general, will introduce you to non-focused knowledge and expose you to gross overgeneralizations and conseqeuently ‘technical’ pollution- you will end up sounding like someone lost, who is trying to play itrad. at best you will only mimmick, never attaining the real deal. doesn’t matter how proficient or knowledgaeble the teacher is about other instruments. the classical world doesn’t ‘get’ itrad fluting.
checkout scoiltrad on-line if you are in dire need of tutoring in itrad fluting. you definitely will not be led astray. you will probably have very clear, focused, and knowledgeable teaching.
in other words… 1 year invested in ‘that’ class vs. 1 year invested in something like scoiltrad should yield vastly different results.
Hi,
You can get the “Mad for Trad” flute tutorial by Seamus Egan. It has video clips where you can play along, sheet music to get you started. It has been very helpful for me.
Jon
If what you want to do is learn to play Irish Traditional music on the flute, you’ll need to find a teacher of that music. The best way to find one is not though mainstream music schools, but through forums like this one or the woodenflute list. If that is what you intend, then learning on the wooden flute is best.
If you want to play the flute in classical or other styles, then get a silver flute and join the normal woodwind class - playing music is awesome, whatever the instrument or style!
It is also true that the keyless flutes are mainly useful for Irish music - it’s not that easy to play other styles. It is possible to play Irish music on a Boehm (silver) flute but it’s not often done.
So, I think the question is, where do you wish to end up? That will answer the question of which direction you should travel.
Peace
Tim
poppycock and fiddlesticks
See Scotland, Bretagne, Wales, England, Scandinavian and German Folk traditions, the rest of France, Italy, Spain - in fact: most of Europe including Greece and Crete etc etc etc - folk, medieval, renaissance
as well as 7 of the 10 thaat scales (modes) of North Indian music etc etc
South American music is amenable to “Irish” flute also.
And so it goes. The world is bigger than a well.
I think whatever gets you playing the darn thing is the most important. If a Boehm class is all you can get to and helps inspire you, then it will help demystify a few things … but my advice is not to spend too much money on anything flutewise for a while until you see whether you really wouldn’t rather play the accordion or something.
As long as you’re alive, there’s always time to learn more, esp. about the nuances of an instrument/style, but if it’s not for you, then … what’s the point? Anyway, you can play a Boehm flute for Irish music (ask Noel Rice or, of course, Joanie Madden), and if you’re comfortable enough on an Irish flute you can also play certain classical music on it (tho’ not as easily). (And, BTW, a D major scale, barring the F-sharp/F-natural and the use of your thumb on the B, is fingered pretty much the same on both kinds of flutes.)
But hey. For centuries, people have played what they have, and play the music they have access to. From there, the degree of success or virtuosity is directly proportional to passion for it and time/creativity spent with it. Humans are capable of amazing things, or music wouldn’t exist in the first place. So. If you can’t play any flute, you can’t play any style, never mind whether it’s authentic or not.
Although if you’re interested in Irish, Grey’s book is the definitive tome. He also has tutorials on his website; it’s something like www.greylarsen.com
{insert screaming worms sound effect} 
Good luck, and most important, have fun!
Thanks for all the advice! I am leaning towards dropping the class - must decide on this today to get a full refund.
The instructor teaches mostly classical and jazz flute. For me, classical is too sedate and jazz tends to be sedate and I prefer not to stray too far from the melodic line.
Finally, the class is a bit crowded - 8 fluters in beginner/intermediate/advanced levels and less than 2 hours for all of us per week.