My work is shut down this week for the holidays, so I’ve been making some reeds for my fairly Rowsome-esque concert-pitch chanter. In my life, I’ve probably made about two dozen reeds, so I’m definitely still a newbie. Perhaps half of them have ended up making a sound reasonably similar to what most ears know as UP. They seem fairly promising: they’re airtight, they crow easily, and at the correct pitch, they respond crisply/quickly, the back D is strong, and they’re more or less in tune in my chanter. They’re loud, and I’d say they’re somewhat hard to play, compared to my current reed. On the whole, though, I’m happy with them, and the better among them would make fine back-up reeds.
But the tone can be fairly harsh. The effect seems to vary slightly from note to note. I can turn down the volume with the bridle, but the harshness seems to remain. You’d never say that they’re really egregious, but when I play a tune, it sounds a little ‘brassy’. Now, I’m using brass tubing staples, copper bridles, French cane that I’ve had about six years. I’ve heard people say that the tubing staple can give rise to tuning problems, especially in the upper octave. I’ve also heard that the material of the staple can have an effect on the sound. But my original (Irish-made) elder reeds had tubing staples, and the tone was loud but not harsh (until they dried out and died).
I have a pretty good reed in my chanter right now (made by someone else, who knows what they’re doing , but there are one or two things I wish were different about it, hence my foray into making my own. I feel like I have a good handle on the usual tuning problems and how to deal with them (upper octave too sharp/flat? do x/y; back D weak? do z; etc).
But overall tone quality is not a topic I’ve seen discussed in books like Hegarty’s. I’m just wondering what people’s experience has been with harshness/brightness of tone, and tone quality in general, and how to influence it with dimensions/preparation of the reed and its components.
I tend to think less of my reeds if they don’t have that nice brassy snap to them, or whatever you’d call it. I have found any number of variables in the cane itself - sometimes even from the same tube. This is probably the biggest factor in determining the overall brightness of the tone in my experience. I don’t think the staple material has any bearing whatsoever. Others can argue that point till they’re blue, bit I don’t buy it.
Joe’s suggestion is good however. Give it time, and see what happens in a few weeks or even months of playing in.
Dear Mr. F: May I suggest California cane (nice and soft) and copper staples, scored and roughed up with a file on the inside, which means you’re going to have to “roll” the staple out of pre-heated, softened, sheet copper. Start on a mandrel centered on the sheet over a narrow U groove in a wood block, hammer it to get it bent, then start hammering it in a curve around the mandrel, turning it over in the groove and finishing it up on a flat wooden board by really ROLLING the staple around the board, with a long flat file over it. One hand on the file handle and the other hand at the file tip. The File-less method, is to merely hammer the staple sheet around the mandrel in a “U” shaped groove in a block of wood, turning it over frequently, till it’s formed. Either way, at the end of it all, reheat the staple and take the work- hardening out of it. I’ve noticed that brass ( just crunching the tube of brass down to form the taper, is a work- hardening process) and work -hardened copper can re-inforce high overtones, which make the chanter sound “Harsh”. A roughed -up staple interior surface, knocks off some more overtones, and the these effects can add up to a sweeter sound. You might have to have slightly shorter staple, as the rough surface does flatten the pitch of the reed as well. Conversely, Ted Anderson made some staples out of Silver sheet (like some oboe reed makers do) and he got a high-ringing group of overtones with that kind of staple. That would jazz up a dull chanter.
Another approach would be to reed your chanter sharp and rush it down with craft store long pipe cleaners tied on with thread ,on a long thin wire of brass. But would it play in tune with inself and on A=440 reference?
You have to experiment and makes alot more REEEEEDS!
PM Ted Anderson for the cane! Good luck! Sean Folsom
You also may want to consider widening the V at the point… but again, before altering the reed, play it in to see if that helps. And, as always, when alering a reed, remember that it cannot be undone, so a little at a time.
Well, Sean, you lost me right there… Without access to a machine shop, I can’t really make my own mandrels, so I’m committed to the world of the brass tubing staple, for now at least
Now that’s an interesting idea! I haven’t run it through a spectral analyser yet, to see what’s going on. It’s not just that it’s bright (more intense harmonics), but ‘harsh’ too, which I suspect means that some of my higher harmonics are not only more intense, but probably misaligned. I think I might try to figure out some way to rough up the inside of my tubing staples, possibly anneal them too, see if that helps.
That much is a given - but thanks for the feedback.
Here is a comment for pondering.
Is this ‘harsh’ sound what you’re hearing as a piper… or what your (intended) audience hears?
I was suprised to hear radical differences in playing and listening to the same chanter. Yes, much of that ‘sound’ is the style of the piper behind the stick, but you’d be suprised how different the same chanter sounds 5 or 6 feet away.
Comments?
Totally agree. Whenever I start having doubts about the sound of my chanter I always get someone else (a competent player) to play my set so I can reassure myself that from the front and at a distance of a few feet at least, my chanter really sounds very nice.
Looks like Sean and I are gonna be forced to duke it out over a few pints.
I stand by the feeling that there is little if indeed ANY difference in tone given by the staple material. This has been discussed at some length in the past, though frankly, I’m too lazy today to look for it.
And as a general rule of thumb, you want to rough up only the OUTside of your staples - not the inner surface. Running a file over the outer surface give the metal a rough texture that bites into the tails of your slips when you tie them on, and keeps everything from slipping around quite so much when tying on.
Out of curiosity, what are you using to form your tubing staples now if not a mandrel of some form? You can buy pre-made rolled staples from a variety of makers. What does your chanter’s maker offer? Even with tubing, it’s more a tuning issue as opposed to a harshness issue you’ll come across.
My biggest inclination given your descriptions of the tone are that perhaps your particular piece of cane wants to be just a touch thinner. I wouldn’t try more than about four or five passes on a light sandpaper per slip and see if it gets you closer to your goal. If it’s really that harsh now, there’s little to loose. But again, bear in mind that the longer a reed is played in, it does tend to mellow out some.
A friend of mine rolls his own staples using a Nick Whitmer mandrel which costs $5. Apart from being a top notch pipemaker, Nick’s a great source of reed making supplies.
Sean is right. Think of the staple as an extension of the bore. Roughing up the outside of the chanter, or the staple, will not affect the air column resonance. See [u]hyperphysics[/u]
I understand what you guys are saying about the inner bore - however, it sounds like trying to slow your car down by taking off the tires rather than just applying the brakes.
It seems much more intuative, and more easily reproduceable, to leave the bore of the chanter alone, wood, staple metal, the lot of it. Learn to control the tone of your reeds with the cane instead. I’ve never had any troubles with harshness of tone in any chanter I’ve reeded, and while they have been few compared to many here, none have ever had any bit of harshness to their tone that wasn’t fixed in a (more or less) properly scraped and formed reed.
I’m not sure this is a good anology. But as you pointed out, learning how to use cane correctly (in addition to choosing good quality cane) will make all the difference in the world and greatly reduce the number of reeds that
turn out too harsh in tone. Everything else that is done to correct the issue is really only applying a bandage to a wound… not creating the wound in the first place is truly the optimum route to take.
In the end, if it doesn’t work out, make another.
By the way, check over your tubing staples to make certain you’re measuring the taper, width and lip ID correctly.
It’s more like putting nobby tires on your car or bike to control it on slippery slopes! (you’re brakes will last longer too, so will your brake hands!)
I still dunno…it just sounds strange. If the chanter is that “slippery” to reed properly, I’d ditch it pretty quickly and get one with better handling.
I think brian lee may have the answer when he said you may have to thin the reed a touch more.I ,ve been building reeds for my lamb and penny chanter for two years and I originally had that same problem
when I gave david daye a call.He advised to thin the reed a little more
and sure enough it solved the problem.However I noticed the old harsh reeds stayed in tune longer and indeed mellowed over time but still needed a slight thinning hope this helps
Pat.
I LOVE the consternation of suggesting anything out of the ordinary (hur-rump hur-rump!) but I 've been at this a long time, and I still haven’t tried EVERYTHING! Wait a minute, I might think of something else…or not…NOW… anyways…Mr.Fg! for mandrels get some blank drill rod stock in the usual sizes 1/8" diameter, and up, and file it to shape yourself (you said that you have some time so…do it!). Ted Anderson far outshines me in the rolling staples department, and there’s many an interesting trick he can tell about! (are you reading this Uncle Tedley?) I started with metal tubing, and after years of doing without the roll your own…I had to OWN UP to the fact that it was… INADEQUATE! Some modern chanters are reeded with tubing staples ,but then there’s the larger percentage that are tuned with REAL conical staples (sometimes “spun out” of tubing on a lathe). As to scoring up the inside of the staple, it’s definately NOT harming the chanter in anyway, shape or form…and I have tried it and it works for me. The part I left out is the roughing up, the cross hatching on the interior can be modified depending on the angle of file attack…That is, the marks can go long ways down the length of the staple, or across, all at a right angle OR anything in between the 90o. Now a story about how I came up with this. I had a gig with the San Francisco Bach choir, with medieval songs and dances for Xmas 1987. They wanted a mouth blown bagpipe in D major (and minor) I hubristicaly said “no problem!” I had a Dudelsackus in G, and with some extra drone slider extensions and a French D Bourbonais style chanter out of Applewood, (not a great copy, all made by a good, local, well-meaning friend of mine)…I went to work on it, making reeds, carving out holes, etc. AND OILING IT TO SEAL UP THE BORE. I ran rivers of oil through the chanter, but ultimately to no avail, as some days (not ALL days) the inside grain would open up and instead of D, I was now in C#, a 1/2 step below where I needed to BE!. I did turn in ONE GOOD rehersal (the first one, every body loved it), then one BAD one (due to the pitch shift) and with the Dress rehersal only a night away, the conducter told me that he couldn’t take the chance, so out of the production I went…I did notice as the grain opened up …the chanter tone sounded duller, and duller, and…! Later, in 1994, I got a real D French Bourbonais chanter, from Bernard Blanc, and by 1996, I got the rest of the set made…and hey! I’m still waiting for a “call back” from the Bach choir. Remembering the dull tone of that chanter’s open grain, I experimented with roughing up the interior (THE INSIDE) of the staple, it’s subtle, but it is there (to my ears).
I try to be well -meaning in my turn, to save you guys some TIME!
Now, if the choir calls YOU… Believe me… you CAN handle it…I have faith in YOU! TONE BRIGHT, or tone dullllllllll…
Sean Folsom
Not the case! You can make a tapered mandrel out of drill rod with an electric drill, put some very thick leather in your lap and grind the taper in with a file. You might want to tie the trigger down with string, leaving both hands free to grind. Dave Daye used to have a bit about this on his site - the “lap lathe.” You can make simple desktop lathes, too - there’s scthuff on the web about all this.
Old drills make good mandrels - very hard metal.
One guy in the Oboe Reed Book made staples by electrodeposition, I think the term is - his tone was much brighter and clearer than normal. Materials can effect tone in surprising ways, otherwise we’d all be playing balsa chanters!
, but there are one or two things I wish were different about it, hence my foray into making my own. I feel like I have a good handle on the usual tuning problems and how to deal with them (upper octave too sharp/flat? do x/y; back D weak? do z; etc).