I just bought my first whistle, a low D from Nick Metcalf at ethnic winds. I know absolutely nothing about these things, I just wanted to learn, and I liked the sound of the low D on his site. After having messed around with it for a couple of days, and done a ton of research on how whistles are made. I am beginning to think my new whistle, beautiful as it is, is not made very well, but because of my inexperience, I am not sure, so I need the input from people who have played low D whistles and know how a good one should play. I learned early on that I needed to use the “piper grip” so that is behind me, but when I am playing the low D note, it seems to want to shift to the higher octave almost uncontrollably. I have to breathe so softly that there is almost no volume whatsoever playing the low D, and sometimes, I just can’t get it to play the low D note at all unless I progress down the scale to it. Next, I’ve noticed that this problem becomes magnified the longer I play the whistle, after only a few minutes of playing, the shift to the higher octave is uncontrollable with any amount of restraint in breath. It seems that just the slightest amount of moisture in the whistle may be contributing to this. I’ve also noticed that the sharp leading edge of the fipple is not perfectly straight across, it’s a little wavy from one side to the other, and I’m wondering if this could also contribute to this rapid up-shifting. It seems to me that one should be able to play the low D note at a reasonable volume and breath pressure before it up-shifts to the higher octave. I would really appreciate any help you could give me on this, as I paid about $170.00 for this whistle, and I’m not too happy with it right now, but I want to make sure it’s not operator error before I start complaining to the maker. Thanks very much for any help or advice you might be willing to offer.
Some low D’s can be touchy at the bottom. That said, you seem to indicate that the problems gets worse as you play. Could you be suffering from condensation in the windway? Play again, and when the problem happens put a finger over the fipple window and blow hard. Does the problem go away? If so then you have moisture build-up. This is a common problem with whistles that have narrow windways or are made of metal (I know nothing of your whistle, and am talking in generalities here). If this is your problem then there are plenty of solutions suggested, and you have to find what works for you and your whistles.
- warm the whistle before playing
- clear the whistle while playing (sucking, or a quick hard blow while covering the windway)
- treatment with a surfactant (Duponol, detergent, soap, Guinness)
- there may be others
And why not talk the the maker I am sure that he will have advice too, and will be welcoming of new players whatever their level of expertise.
One possible cause could be that you are not covering the holes properly. Sometimes, until you find the proper grip, you think you are covering all the holes while actually you are leaving an opening somewhere.
To check for this, one thing you could try is to cover all the holes with tape [*] and then blow into the whistle.
[*] I’m not sure if attaching tape is advisable to do with wooden whistles…
This suggest that possibly the problem is that you are not covering the holes properly. If progressing down the scale you get a good low D, this means that the whistle is capable of playing this note and the problem is somewhere else (unless the range of breath pressure to get the low D is so narrow that you need a extremely precise breath control to obtain a low D…).
Masking tape should be safe enough, if you don’t leave it on for a week.
I get the impression that you have just begun playing the whistle. It took me nearly a year to master the pipers grip on a low D. Before I got the fingering down I blamed all my troubles on the whistle. It turned out that the whistle (Dixon 003) was great, I was the problem. With practice I can now do almost anything on that whistle that I do on a high D. Give it time and don’t despair its worth it… Bob.
Or fatigue? I second the suggestion of taping over the holes. If that fixes the problem, then perhaps go back to basics and forget about the lowest notes for now. Get comfy with the top (left) hand first before working your way down, gradually. Very few musicians can pull off the trick of taping and untaping holes whilst playing a tune (except very slow airs) so in the end you’ll have to go back to using your fingers, or perhaps someone else’s fingers.
Oh and welcome!
Thank you all for your input. Just to address some of the questions and answers here;
- The whistle is all metal, including the fipple plug
- I did think to do a trial with taping the holes, but I still have the same result
- Since the whistle is all metal, and it’s Oregon, and we’re in the rainy season, and there is always a definite difference between the temperature of the whistle and the ambient air, even if the whistle has been in a warm room with me, condensation is definitely a problem.
The whistle plays a low D note when it is very dry, but even then, the breath control has to be extreme, and so soft as to render the note very quiet. Any amount of moisture at all, and ALL of the lower 3 notes start shifting up an octave uncontrollably.
I’ve read somewhere that this problem could be caused by the fipple block and the windway top being too far from the lip.
Any thoughts on this theory?
Thanks for all of your replies!
A few months ago I had a chance to play the touring set of Ethnic Winds whistles, including two low Ds.
Based on my evaluation, and that of another experienced whistle player, I’d suggest that the problems described by the OP are exactly problems (among others) that I also experienced, and are less the OP’s inexperience than inherent flaws in the design of the instruments, which taping holes or warming will not help.
I’m sorry to be so unusually blunt. The moderators here take seriously our vow of neutrality whenever possible in these cases. But in my private opinion, the Ethnic Winds are simply not suitable to the demands of performing trad music, especially in an unamplified, live setting where volume, responsiveness and intonation are critically important.
I alerted Nick Metcalf to the problems I found in a private critique, to which I had no reply. So I am not sure if the problems are being addressed or not. The instruments are physically well-crafted and attractively decorated, but need design input and feedback from advanced players within the tradition with regard to their playing characteristics.
I’d suggest that the OP contact the maker for an appropriate resolution.
Thanks very much for your candid response. As a complete newbie who just spent a lot of money on this whistle, this kind of input is invaluable - lifesaving. The problems with this whistle could have put me off learning permanently, so I am very grateful for this info. I’ve contacted the maker, and if he cannot satisfy me by fixing the problem, I will surely be returning it. To which point I’d like to hear some recommendations for a low D whistle maker, even if you need to send it to me as a PM. Thanks so very much for your help
There are plenty to choose from. Personally, I would strongly recommend A Dixon TB012D (or TB003D) as good value for money learner (and beyond) low D. Especially if you are on the European side of the pond. I have one, and my only small criticism is that it takes more air than I like - though I seem to be in a bit of a minority here. The whistle has a strong low end and a sweet top end.
Other folk here will have opinions just as strong (and just as valid), so you will need to sift through many replies, compare prices and scour the used instruments section for a bargain… good luck.
Oh dear - that’s not good news. I’ve made a couple of low whistles based on the pics on the ethnic wind site with moderately good results (for a homemade whistle). Do you think there is an easy fix to the design faults like adjusting the windway height, or is it more complicated than that?
I’d absolutely contact Nick directly. I have no experience with his instruments but I have many others and have never had a maker refuse to correct a flaw (or even to make a finicky personal adjustment) without question or cost other than shipping. I can say with complete conviction that I’ve sent back five instruments over the past few years to four different makers with no objections from any and all have completed the work as requested.
If this proves not the be the case with your issue, then please let us know as we are a community here of players, makers and others who have open and honest dealings with each other on a regular basis.
It must be a correctable issue if he is able to create quality sound samples on his site from the same model. However, if this is a design flaw, and I completely trust MTGuru’s opinion here, that he is unwilling to correct then Nick should refund your purchase price with nothing more than a return freight charge if anything.
ecohawk
This old thread contains various opinions on ethnic wind’s whistles and some info from the maker:
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70482&hilit=ethnic+wind&start=0
I’m new here but offer some ideas.
Firstly detergent is the way to keep a clear windway on recorders and whistles. A drop gently spread at entry and blown through will cause moisture to glide through rather than accumulate. Detergent is designed to bind water and oil particles together and with no oil around it will not combine with water. I’ve used this on plastic recorders and whistles for many years and it works.
Piper’s grip is nice in theory but be prepared to adapt as not everyone’s fingers have joints that will seal the holes tightly due to dryness etc. I use a mixture of fingertip pads and piper’s grip but will change to all tips sometimes for more precision.
I have a Howard whistle I play now and then. It needs gentle pressure to play and can be be a bit jumpy if breath isn’t carefully controlled. It has a black enamel finish. My other low D is a Kerry whistle bought in one of Phil Hardy’s clearance sales for half the cost of the Howard. It loves to be blown hard and encourages involvement in the expression of tunes. This results in a lovely combination of note and breath sound. It has a plain metal tube which feels great to hold.
A low G whistle is easier to span than the low D and can help to develop the stretch you need for the bigger whistle. Mine is a Susato and I love the sound. Play it on its own with D fingering or transpose as you would with a treble recorder so that you read a G note as a D fingering and so on. It takes a while to develop this technique if you’ve never done it but it is worth persisting with because you can then play any notation in two keys. Some tunes in O’Neill’s or Kerr’s go below low D or are written all above G. These tunes can be annoying if played on a D or Low D but sit beautifully on the Low G whistle.
Eamon
I would go along with Dr Phill with regard to the Dixons. These are fine beginner whistles and the finger spacings are more forgiving than either the Susato, Howard, Kerry Songbird or Kerry Pro. However, I understand that the Kerry Optima has been designed for easier fingering,
Sigung, I hope it all gets fixed up to your satisfaction. I recently ordered one of Nick’s Copper dreams, I’m hoping I will not have the same issue. I’ll let everyone know how it goes. From those previous posts though, it seems he is very customer oriented and will help you.
Matt
Thank you, this is exactly the kind of advice I need. Doesn’t bother me that he’s in England, I’ve been ordering RC parts from Hong Kong.. they do eventually get here, and I’m sure if I order one from him, it will get here long before I’m able to play well.
I sent him an extreme closeup of the labial lip, his response was:
“Sorry you are having trouble with it. Please send it back to me. Yeah, looks like I missed a spot on the blade. I’ll re-work it for you. I’ll make sure I do it the day it gets here and get it right back to you. I apologize if it was a mistake on my part”
So I am very encouraged by his speedy and concerned response. I’ll be sure to let everyone know how the repair comes out.
Well, for someone who’s new you sure sound like you know your stuff. Thanks for the detergent idea, Nick suggested that as well, so I’m going to be sure to try it.
Piper’s grip is coming along, albeit slowly, I’m not able to use it on the left hand, but that’s okay, I can span the holes with that one. I can use it now with limited success on the right hand, so we’ll see.. I bought an 8 dollar Walton’s tin whistle today, and I can play it with none of the problems I was having with the one I’m having repaired, so at least I now have a tried and true benchmark for comparison when I get the other one back.
Thanks everyone for your help! I’ve been on a lot of forums, but this one has a really exceptional membership. What a great bunch of people you are!!! You help, ideas, thoughts, everything. Just what I needed.