Lizzie might be through with you but I’m not. Your original defense of ‘market forces’ had nothing to do with special circumstances. You just retreated to this position when you realised you weren’t doing too well in the argument.
Not only do you launch a moral defense of profiteering by citing market forces, which have nothing to do with morals, you then have the hide to tell those who behave more decently that they have no right to call it as they see it. Yes, profiteering is legal. So, fortunately, is calling it for what it is.
Me? Keeping the economy humming? AWESOME! I never thought that my paltry salary could do so much! I don’t think any one on this board has EVER questioned Mr. O’Riordan’s talents as both a world-class whistlesmith or as al all in all nice guy. Having spoken with him many times over the years I’d be the first to agree with that.
You still don’t seem to grasp however, that his whistles aren’t readily available. THIS is why the price is going up. You have a very limited supply, and an unsure future with a product, and those examples that are on the open market will exponentially rise in cost. Pat is welcome to make whistles as many or few as he sees fit. He’s also able to charge whatever he wants for them. Incidentally, I was charged more when they were finally ready three years after the order was quoted, becuase of the natural cost increases of materials etc. Did I mind? Nope. Not a bit.
Maybe I will sell my whistles someday for exactly what I payed for them…but make someone wait three years too. That way, they will apreeciate them as much as I do. Seriously, if a whistle sells for a given price, you really have no room to gripe. It sold, and we can only assume the buyer is quite happy - that’s the bottom line.
If you’re up for the challenge however, it is always possible to spend the years needed to aquire a skill set like Pats (which is most impressive as you get to know him), and turn out a comparable whistle line. If you’re able to find inexpensive materials and can manage to keep up a good quality control, you would then conceivably be able to flood the market and drive the going rate way down. I for one would love to see another great maker such as Pat come onto the scene. Either way - best of luck.
Right - :roll: I know nothing more of this sale than any of you do…but if it is proffiteering, so be it. The seller still bought. It doesn’t really bother me what they paid. Would I pay that much? It would depend on the circumstances. Would I care what you think of my purchase? Probably not. What would YOU have sold it for? A wink and a handshake?? It’s amazing to me what gets people so worked up. Must be election season!
What’s the eyeroll for? Is a well-reasoned case that strange to you?
I didn’t say this was a case of profiteering. You defended the use of market forces to justify charging whatever the market will bear. That includes profiteering. But you arrived at a moral conclusion from a premise that has nothing to do with morality. When challenged you changed tack. Now when called on that you change tack again. What’s next? A few Ayn Rand quotes?
I’ve been involved in quite a few transactions with members of this community, some involving sales, others gifts or loans. Nobody has been less than fair. In every case, I’ve gone away feeling delighted about the good will generated and reassured about human nature. Sometimes I’ve been the recipient of kindness, sometimes I’ve been the one who’s giving. Money can’t substitute for the feeling of community all parties take away from exchanges like this. I don’t feel morally smug about this and I don’t think any of the other parties did either. This community generates a lot of good will and rather a lot of us want to be a part of that.
What did you say it was then? I’m not defending anything or anyone related to this transaction - I have no first-hand knowledge of what the actual motivating factor was behind this particular sale. It was simply an alternate viewpoint that was not in keeping with the “he’s a bastard because he charges too much for something that should have gone to someone who wanted to pay a lot less.” line of thinking. Again, I say :roll:
For about the fourth time, you drew a moral conclusion from premises that have nothing to do with morality. When called on it, you made a dash for the moral high ground and fell flat on your face again. Enough said.
Yeah so um…where have I drawn ANY conclusions? I offered a possible reason related to the cost of this whistle sale end of story. Good lord someone needs to go enjoy a few pints I’ll even buy them for you! Just don’t take this all as so bloody serious. An observation was given as a possibility. Save your witch hunting energy for the gouls you’ll find on your doorstep tonight.
You know, i’m sure this is a wonderful whistle, yadayadayada, and i’m happy someone else got it. To me, it’s completely irrelevant, and there are plenty of whistles being sold for a more reasonable price that would serve me just as well as this one. I say, let the rich have their expensive whistles if it makes them feel good, and i’ll go back to trying to learn how to play the ones i already have.
A couple of months ago I bought an Abell from the original poster. I paid a little under the list price for a superb as new whistle. But bearing in mind that we are both in the UK, if I had bought direct from the US I’d have been hit with 17.5% VAT, goodness knows how much Import Duty and a further charge from the Royal Mail for collecting the money. The last whistle I bought from the US come out at £116.00 (about $213) in extra charges! I could well be that the selling price of this particular whistle simply reflects this situation.
It is not advisable, James, to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener.
– Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, 1957
Man has been called a rational being, but rationality is a matter of choice - and the alternative his nature offers him is: rational being or suicidal animal. Man has to be man - by choice; he has to hold his life as a value - by choice; he has to learn to sustain it - by choice; he has to discover the values it requires and practice his virtues - by choice.
You buy a house for 35K some years ago. Because of the prevailing market conditions houses in your neighborhood are now selling for 235K. What will YOU sell your house for?
Actually, I thought his $350 price was a refreshingly low asking price for an extraordinarily hard-to-get item, considering he could have sold it on ebay for probably closer to $700
So, one way of looking at it is: The guy made a profit, and someone still got a hell of a deal on an O’Riordan, since primarily the only way to get them now (unless you are lucky enough to be his closed list) is to spend close to $700 on Ebay. I have a special O’Riordan watch list on Ebay, and I keep hoping I’ll be able to snag a deal on one, but so far no luck.
Maybe one of you more generous guys with O’Riordans will sell me a D at Pat’s price so I can get it before my birthday next Sunday?
Hmmm…do houses in neighborhoods just a few blocks away go for $50K? And are the $235K houses still available for $35K to those on a closed waiting list, but they’re selling for $235K by resellers because the neighborhood is so “desirable”?
Maybe I’d give a good deal on my house to someone who really deserves it, compared to some rich guy who doesn’t even care about the neighborhood and won’t even live there, but just wants it for the cachet.
Hey, I’ve made no assumptions about their motives. In fact, what I wrote was in opposition to that. I’ll repeat:
[quote=“Lizzie”]
but more than a few have asked high prices for their O’Riordans.,.they can’t all have had a compelling reason. I will stick with ‘greedy’ for most of them.
[/quote]
And certainly much easier to paint them all with the same brush rather than find out the actual facts of each case.
And here we go again:
You can guess all you want, but I will tell you that for me, you couldn’t be further from the truth.
Here’s the deal, I think it’s great you feel so strongly about price gouging. But, you are wrong to be so quick in accusation and judgement, whether it’s greedy price gougers or mindless tools of the consumer culture.
I speak from personal experience when I say that if you wish to be effective in fighting whatever evil you oppose, you HAVE to be sure of your facts. Otherwise your cloak of righteousness becomes a fool’s motley.
As a general observation about effective campaigning, I’m sure your principle is right Joe. But I think you’re being a bit unfair in this case.
A lot of people on this board are very careful to explain the reasons behind their pricing when they offer an item at a price that might look suspicious or might otherwise be controversial. This issue isn’t new and old-timers have revisited it time and again. For that reason, those who don’t want to be thought to be pricing unfairly by principles that are not wholly determined by supply and demand explain themselves. Because of this history, the default assumption is that those who don’t explain themselves and offer an item way over the new price fall into the market-forces-only school of thought.
Look at the initial exchanges. Brian made that default assumption and only retreated to the position you defend when he started to lose the argument.
I don’t think any one on this board has EVER questioned Mr. O’Riordan’s talents as both a world-class whistlesmith or as al all in all nice guy. Having spoken with him many times over the years I’d be the first to agree with that.
Seriously, if a whistle sells for a given price, you really have no room to gripe. It sold, and we can only assume the buyer is quite happy - that’s the bottom line.
