Hey, has anyone noticed that we have a new forum on C&F, called the Irish Traditional Music Forum? Check it out!
On 2002-07-31 11:16, blackhawk wrote:
Hey, has anyone noticed that we have a new forum on C&F, called the Irish Traditional Music Forum? Check it out!
Can they tell me which whistle is the best for me?
For you Mark, there is no good whistle 
Loren
I was wondering what happened to the old timers. Drove em away… oh well.
That’s what happens when you get too honest with OT social, political, cultural opinions.
As a subscriber to IRTRAD, I appreciate the graphic format of the new Forum.
You can’t just follow a thread in IRTRAD and if you think WE are sometimes tiresome…well… check it out for yourself.
Now if they can just block the ol Weekender from there. I had to laugh because there is already an OT post there.
Time to lurk.
How cool is that?! I’ll most definetly check it out.
On 2002-07-31 13:02, The Weekenders wrote:
That’s what happens when you get too honest with OT social, political, cultural opinions.
Hardly. It’s not content but volume I think. I think you get to a point where people will only respond to a discussion they feel they can add something to, and that hasn’t been rehashed incessantly.
I guess I will have to keep 2 Windows open now so I don’t miss anything! I just posted to the new forum so somebody go there and answer my question!!!
Kathy
Weekenders,
What happens is that all the OT crap pushes the on topic posts off the page so quickly that soon you end up with the same questions asked 2-3 times a week - For example “Which Low D should I buy?” essentially came up 3 times in a 7-10 period this month, a number of similar things occurred.
I’ve seen that question a hundred times now, and I’ve answered it at least 60 times. Now I wouldn’t mind, except very few people seem to search the archives, and all the OT posting exacerbates the problem because people who do make an effort to look back a few pages have to wade through tons of totally unrelated chaff.
The good news is that the new forum will be more specific, and I believe actively moderated, something I look forward too.
Loren
So it will be moderated and controlled? I guess the old request so often quashed will be granted. Remember when I asked about that?? I had my figurative “hand” slapped because its was so “un-democratic.”
Or maybe that happened 100 times too!!
Best wishes to a new, lean, not-so-mean Forum! I am listening to Julia Clifford as I type and I think its great if you can hang onto the trad as a topic.
I have asked specific stylistic questions about reels several times and no answers were forthcoming. Maybe the focus will foster answers…
In a way I think this is good, as I’ve always worried about the blanket equation of Whistle==ITM, so hopefully this will encourage ITM topics to take place there, and for Traddies to stop scaring the Whistlers who might have broader tastes and designs on their whistle playing. I’ll probably pop over to the ITM forum to lurk occasionally, but I am more interested in the Whistle than specifically ITM (although I do love ITM).
I did have to LOL though, at the FAQ that says Riverdance isn’t ITM because it is ‘composed’. I agree it isn’t ITM, but that does sound to me to be a prety dumb distinction, especially before the assertion of non-elitism. Or perhaps all ITM was spontaniously given by angels?
On 2002-07-31 20:37, fatveg wrote:
Or perhaps all ITM was spontaniously given by angels?
Well, there may indeed be a connection. According to legend, the Tuatha de Danann were familiar with the feadan (see L. E. McCullough’s “Historical Notes on the Tinwhistle”). Some sources indicate that the Tuatha de Danann were once thought to be descendents of the neutral angels (who were cast out of heaven for refusing to take sides in the Lucifer revolt).
On 2002-07-31 15:07, The Weekenders wrote:
So it will be moderated and controlled? I guess the old request so often quashed will be granted. Remember when I asked about that?? I had my figurative “hand” slapped because its was so “un-democratic.”
I’m afraid I don’t remember when you asked that, but the new forum will be moderated by the same people, guided by the Reasonable Person Principle – in other words, no differently than the remaining forums.
Cheers,
- -Rich
I think a Forum just for Irish music, tune news & questions is brilliant. I’ve certainly posted a few such questions here before, and I’m sure in the new forum they’ll get more focussed attention from those in the know.
Now for a radical idea… how about a forum SPECIFICALLY for OT stuff, chat about our lives, loves & hates, jokes etc. that are not whistle related? It could be called “Off Topic”, or maybe “No Lorens” 
Then those who love this sort of stuff (ahem, like me) could revel in it, and those who find it a waste of valuable eye-time could just ignore it all.
Martin,
Yeah, I’ve made that suggestion (to Dale) several times before…
Loren
On 2002-07-31 20:37, fatveg wrote:
I did have to LOL though, at the FAQ that says Riverdance isn’t ITM because it is ‘composed’. I agree it isn’t ITM, but that does sound to me to be a prety dumb distinction, especially before the assertion of non-elitism. Or perhaps all ITM was spontaniously given by angels?
Given by angels actually describes it pretty well: We know the tunes must have come from someone, but whoever gave them to us is vague and intangible. All we can say is: Joe got it from Paddy, Liam got it from Seamus, and Martin got it from Martin. At every step the music changes and yet remains the same in essence. Even the tunes that were written so recently that we know the authors are changed and adapted in the tradition. That is the same with any folk music in a basically oral/aural tradition, and it very different from Brahms writing symphonic settings of Hungarian dances or Bill Whelan collecting royalty checks.
I agree that a distinction that speaks about the characteristics and the quality of the music would be much more meaningful. The problem only exists because people think that something like Riverdance is ITM (and admittedly it’s closer to ITM than to Tibetan temple music), but it’s a hard thing to discuss (in my experience) without being accused of making a judgment on worth. No one accuses me of elitism when I point out the differnces between Mahler and Chopin, but when pointing out the differences between Riverdance and Willy Clancy’s playing, I have been accused of elitism. Surprised it hasn’t happened to you, fatveg, if you agree that Riverdance and ITM are different.
Martin has a good suggestion…
a seperate forum for OT’s
On 2002-08-01 09:25, Bloomfield wrote:
when pointing out the differences between Riverdance and Willy Clancy’s playing, I have been accused of elitism. Surprised it hasn’t happened to you, fatveg, if you agree that Riverdance and ITM are different.
I offer you a quote from Mary Bergin
I don’t like to see Riverdance and all of this being classed as ‘traditional music’ . It’s Irish music, it’s coming out of Ireland but it is NOT traditional music and it’s being confused all the time with it. Ithink alot of this new age Irish music is not Irish traditional music. The conformity, the patterns have altered and I think it has taken away from it
quote taken from The Blooming Meadows ; the world of Irish traditional musicians. - ISBN 1-86059-067-5. - p 32
And right she is too. How’s that for elitist.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-08-01 12:31 ]
On 2002-08-01 11:54, Peter Laban wrote:
I offer you a quote from Mary Bergin
I don’t like to see Riverdance and all of this being classed as ‘traditional music’ . It’s Irish music, it’s coming out of Ireland but it is NOT traditional music and it’s being confused all the time with it. Ithink alot of this new age Irish music is not Irish traditional music. The conformity, the patterns have altered and I think it has taken away from it
And right she is too. How’s that for elitist.
Right, and here’s another “snob” discussing traditional music
http://www.standingstones.com/wclancy.html
Teri
Just to point out, “Feet of Flames” (a version of “Lord of the Dance”) has at least one traditional tune in it–so it’s not all “composed” (the tune is “King of the Faeries,” a hornpipe).
I also think there’s a lot to be said for the “Irish new age” music popular now…it’s brought a whole lot of people in to a love of Irish music. From things like Riverdance they move on to learning and loving IrTrad. If it wasn’t for the “new age” stuff, a lot of people in the world wouldn’t know, like, or be drawn to the more traditional music.
When I saw soy-stuffers comment, I thought about replying but held off because its the reinvention the wheel thing.
Breathnach makes the distinction very clear about what constitutes ITM. I think Riverdance is a bad example just because it is so far away from the Trad but I do wonder about 20th century jigs and reels composed by trad players. In Breathnach’s definition they would not be trad…yet…
As for music coming from mystical sources, it seems a bit whismsical to so state. Some are very ancient melodies, surely, but many reels are traceable to Scotland and there, perhaps, they go back in time. Some come from Dows books and I have found several tunes in Norbecks that are just reworked Carolans.
I feel that the Chieftains tried to render tunes in an ancient manner just to illustrate a pre-Scots feeling but they seem to have been roundly lambasted for doing so because they didn’t fit in with current interpretation of old Trad. To my ears, most of what we call Trad rests solidly in the 17ththru 19th century and Breathnach verifies that repeatedly. He mentions slip jigs and airs as going back further then gives examples.
I understand and accept Breathnach’s distinction without get exercised about it.
I can’t see anybody being a snob for bolstering a definition though.
But there is that nagging point, it seems, where a trad players re-working or original inspiration changes hands just enough times to then become trad. Its a very democratic or even socialist kind of treatment but makes it “of the people,” to not be attributed to a singer composer but thrown into the common well for use by all. By the way, did Tommy Peoples actually compose the Butterfly?? I have seen it attributed to him but wasn;t sure, exactly in the fashion discussed above!!
Thanks for site, TeriK. Great bookmark for periodic inspiration!!!
[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-08-01 12:59 ]