I’ve been playing almost a year now after a few years of whislting, and am breaking in a new Copely after learning on a cheap bamboo flute for 10 months. I seem to be completley unable to get consistent tones out of all the notes above g in the second octave. SOmetimes the tone cuts out completely, somtimes there are harsh overtones. If I concentrate on playing long tones and really focus my embrochure, the tones are semi-ok. However, if I try to play something like the B part of Connaughtman’s rambles, which is 2nd - octave intensive, it makes even the mice run for cover. I can get satisfying tones out of all other notes, but the embrochure demands for the notes above the high g seems so exacting and specific that I wonder if I have any hope of playing the notes in a tune.
The probelm is probably my embrochure, but I wonder since its a new flute if the cut of the embrochure hole itself might be contributing to these problems? I’m very puzzled.
I think (this is just my theory) that the deeper chimney on the Copley is causing problems for you. A thin walled bamboo flute is very easy to octivate (push up an octave), but the deeper the embouchure chimney the harder you have to push.
So I believe it is just a matter of acclimating yourself with the Copley.
The deeper embouchure chimney helps to produce a strong steady and lovely tone. Copleys are wonderful flutes. Just keep working at it.
It’s hard to say without seeing you play; however, there is something I suspect…
Please try something for me…roll the headjoing out a bit, so that you’re covering maybe only 1/3 of the embouchure with your lip, and try maybe actually holding back a bit on the 2nd octave notes instead of pushing harder.
Like I say, without seeing you play, it’s hard to tell, but try that and please post if it’s better, worse, or no different.
Paul, most anyone who starts out on a flute has second octave problems, and as Jordan said, it may be the deep chimney for someone not used to it.
I can safely say that Dave Copley doesn’t cut his embouchure, and then pack it up and say, OK, it’s done! He’s got to fine tune it after he’s cut it, and if there were a problem with it, it wouldn’t go out, I’m sure. In fact, the Copley I had, had one of the easiest 2nd octaves of any flute I’ve played.
So, yes, it’s probably your embouchure, or the cork has moved in shipping or during swabbing it out. That will make things screwy in short order. Check the tuning of the first octave notes compared to the tuning on the 2nd octave notes, with a tuner. They should be relatively close (but this is embouchure dependent somewhat too). The high A and B are harder to check, since they are harder to hit, especially for someone fairly new to his flute.
And one more suggestion, try relaxing your lips a bit when playing the second octave. The harder you try sometimes, the more trouble you have. When you relax, (hands too), it often is much easier. It does take a little time to get there, until you’re fairly comfortable playing both octaves. But, not that long, it just seems that way when you start!
try taking off the headjoint and getting the headjoint to jump the octave and go back down. work on that… there should be no change in your breath, but only in the corners of your mouth. the octaves should both be in tune. try putting the flute together and doing the same thing, keeping in mind that there should be no change in air pressure, only in the corners of your mouth.
dave can indeed cut an embouchure! the headjoint in my avatar was made by him and it responds effortlessly. it is strange to play a wooden flute made by dave, as it seems to “speak with the same accent” as my headjoint.
I have the same problem. The high A and B. It doesn’t even matter what instrument. Whistle, flute, even fiddles! Ok, fiddles are a different issue.
Anyway, some days I’m able to get that A and B effortlessly and the sound is sweet and beautiful. Other days, not so much. Not sure why. I’ve looked in the mirror a few times when I’ve had trouble and sometimes the hole is not right under my lip. But that’s not always the problem.
Thanks for all the advice! After reading your replies and putting some time into tooting this AM, I think I’ve determined that the problem is indeed my embrochure. I’ve been learning on my own, with some guidance from Grey Larsen’s book, and got kind of frustrated yesterday after fiddling around with various embrochure permutations. Other than a few brief toots at the session I attend, I’ve never played any other instruments other than the Erik’s $60 bamboo flute and now the Copely.
I thought that my embrochure was relaxed enough, but turns out I was way wrong - I think I did not know the meaning of the phrase “relaxed embrochure”. I guess somewhat relaxed is not good enough. I started focusing on relaxing more this morning, and noticed that I started to play with a slightly hollowed out feeling to my cheeks after relaxing and pressing my lips to the flute. the high notes, while not perfect, were at least OK - much better than yesterday, and I could even play them softly with OK tone. I ran through sheebag sheemore (forgive spelling) to try it out and was thrilled with the result.
I think I’m back on track. Iv’e had the Copely for over two weeks now, and other than the problem mentioned in this post, I’ve been nothing but inspired by the sounds I’ve been able to get out of the flute thus far. I’m driving my girlfriend nutso because I want to use all my free time to practice!
I think it is the fate of flute players to, from time to time, look horrified at the instrument, convinced it must have broken overnight, because the easy, full, pleasant sound of yesterday has been lost and all that is left is painful, dull hissing, or shrill out-of-tune-ness. Fffft.
In my experience it has always been me that was “broken”, though to be fair it must be said that flutes can break too: cracks, or keys that are no longer airtight, cause leaks, and these cause sound deterioration.
Oh, and give yourself some more months, and maybe you can find a teacher for a few lessons, or a flute workshop somewhere. I’m all for self-teaching, but some things are better, or just faster, learned from other people.
