Hi folks,
I’m working on a CD with a friend. We’d like to record “Ned of the Hill” - Celtic Connections’ (waltz) version rather than the Pogues’ (polka) version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUltGp-UeqM
Obviously the arrangement will be copyright, but is the tune “traditional” or do we need to get permission from the writer for copyright purposes? (We’ve added some new words.)
Anyway, any advice most welcome!
The Fiddler’s Companion lists an AIR of that name (3/4 or 6/8 time), which would be traditional or public domain.
Looks like the Irish tune and lyric Eamonn a Chnoic may date back to at least 1785, and I’d guess might be close to contemporary with Edmund Ryan (died 1724). Not sure about the English lyric “Dark is the evening”, but I’d bet you’re safe, judging from the poetic style.
http://www.contemplator.com/ireland/eamonn.html
http://www.contemplator.com/ireland/ned.html
The 1805 melody published in O’Farrell’s Pocket Companion is, however, not the familiar one you’re after, but the other one - pointed to by Kevin above, and the second one here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/EA_EG.htm#EAMONN_A’_CHNUIC
The melody you want is the first one. And it’s not clear which of these two melodies is referenced in Walker’s Historical Memoirs of the Irish Bards (1786).
So, a bit of a muddle. But I’d still bet your safe from the copyright cops. 
its allways wise to get permission from the composer; but its not allwayse necissary - and in this case at least; may involve meddeling in the dark arts.
one of the things to reserch is how big the circulation of the CD will be - if your not expecting to sell more then a thousand then statistically speeking theres a good chance no one will care.
however; as theres an outside chance that the composer (or at least the copywright owning arranger) of the tune will hear it, its polite to ask - and if you dont ask they can (if there feeling malishous) sue your face right off.
a particularly nasty gotcha employed by the larger record labels is to moniter but not acknowlege all requests for permission. Fortunitly this is rare and of questionable legality howver dont assume that because the record company hasent responded that they are granting permission, and if possible; try and deal with the composer directly.
in most cases involving public domain; confidence is your best defence - somome may well try to claim ownership of the melody or that you or infringing on their own derivitave variation; but; they shouldent have a leg to stand on.
Yes, when the composer has likely been dead for 285 years, a Ouija board is very handy. 
Some historical info about Edmund Ryan here: http://www.doonbleisce.com/eamonn_a_chnoic.htm
BTW, Hoopy … It’s probably the 1956 Clancy Brothers recording (Rising of the Moon, Tradition 1006), sung in Irish, responsible for popularizing that melody in revival. Another nice setting of the same tune+lyric pairing as the Celtic Connection clip is Cathie Ryan’s recording on her eponymous album, track 7.
So if you don’t pay up, you’ll have to arrest yourselves.
Thanks folks!
Aha, here’s an 1858 publication of the English lyric by Samuel Lover. This should put you out of harm’s way.
http://books.google.com/books?id=3loCAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21
In fact, reading the Preface, it seems that Lover is the writer (not just compiler) of these song verses. And Ned of the Hill is also contained in “The Poetical Works of Samuel Lover”, published 1880. Which gives you the authorship of the English lyric.
http://www.archive.org/details/poeticalworksofs00love
Here is his Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Lover
How about a lovely theremin version? 
“Many legends are extant of this romantic minstrel freebooter, whose predatory achievements sometimes extended to the hearts of the gentle sex.”
I didn’t realise they wrote like that in 1858.
Aagh!
Hmm, is that Unjust Intonation, or Shebeen-Tone Temperament?