…although I have a feeling this won’t be the end of this debate, because, as I’ve said, I’ve had to force myself to admit that there ARE people who drool into their instruments:
http://www.chiffandfipple.com/weirdscience1.htm
Dale
[ This Message was edited by: DaleWisely on 2002-03-28 17:46 ]
YES !!! I was right wasnt I
Dan
I’ve been taken to task both in my workshops and in this forum for using the word “spit”, as if I’d use another word very similar to it. But I’ve always thought the offending moisture was “saliva”, not simply water vapor – saliva being a more acceptable word, it would appear. Perhaps it depends on the player. My dentist used to call me “The Saliva Kid,” for reasons you can imagine. With my allergy problems, I guess I just naturally drool into my whistle more than most people! (The truth is out . . .)
I kinda knew it was water vapor, because 90 percent of people don’t knowingly spit into their instrument; and when you play, your breath that’s going into the instrument is moist, so the water vapor does collect. It makes perfect sense. And, that’s really cool that someone decided to actually test it…
Oh, and if you think water vapor collection in a whistle’s windway is a lot to deal with, well, you haven’t seen nothin’ until you play Saxophone! 
Experimental notes do not include if some sort of control experiment was done. It’s necessary to have any confidence the experiment was meaningful.
Exactly what Emile Benoit reels were played? I would think the presence of Newfoundland reels in the experiment could throw the whole thing off.
Nicely done, well designed experiment and fun too! Thanks for sharing it.
Coleman, wasn’t the control in the procedure the saliva swab? I agree he didn’t address his result of the control swab. He probably, to be absolutely correct, should have done a condensate swab too and a swab from an unplayed whistle, plus analyzed the repeatability and reproducability, calculated and reported the degrees of freedom, r squared, etc, but for a fun home experiment, I like it. 
This is a great idea. I think that there may be some cases where it’s all condensation and some where saliva is involved.
I have treated all of my whistles (even those that never appeared to need it) with Jet Dry. I have a Thin Weasel Cocobolo D that continues to give me problems, and I’m convinced that the problem is spittle for two reasons. First, it sometimes clogs within about 30 seconds of my starting to play, which is unlikely if it’s condensation. Second, the Weasel has a very steep pitch, or short beak. I also play Burkes, and I think I may bet used to the long beak.
Anyway, I will carry out Dale’s experiment this weekend with the Weasel and a Burke WBB.
Charlie
A little while back when I was experiencing clogging problems with my generation,it occured to me that deliberately running saliva into the fipple and then clearing it straight away with a few forceful blows(finger over the window to avoid hearing damage!)was the one thing I had,nt tried,and you know what?IT WORKS.Saliva is our natural cleaning agent so it makes sense that the residue left after clearing the airway works in the same way as soap or jet dry to help disperse moisture. Peace, Mike
Charlie, I think it may be more likely to be condensate if it occurs in the first 30 seconds of playing. Warm, saturated breath hitting the cold whistle, especially a metal one, cause condensation fast. Think about how fast you can see your breath when it is cold out, or how fast you fog a mirror when you breathe on it.
Well, good news and bad news. The bad news is that I wasn’t able to repeat Dale’s experiment. The good news is, it’s because I couldn’t get my Weasel to clog.
I suspect beer has something to do with it. I often play in the evening, when I usually have a beer by my side. It always clogs then. I tried the experiment during the day, when I didn’t have a beer. No clogging.
I remember someone once posting that red wine helped the clogging problem, I guess maybe beer does the opposite? Maybe I should have saltines or pretzels too?
Charlie
In my opinion, that stuff is way too runny to be saliva.
Actually this touches on a topic I was thinking of starting a fresh thread on.
I was lucky enough to be first out of the raffle drew at the Hammersmith Irish Centre Christmas bash last year, and as the number of times I’ve ever won a raffle can be counted on one finger, I was out of my chair and making a beeline for the bottle of Whiskey before you could say ChiffandFipple.
To my slight dismay, I was politely steered to the box of chocolates instead; apparently they were drawing in reverse order. But still, free choccies is free choccies, such is the wisdom round these parts, so I grabbed them before anyone double checked the ticket numbers, and scarpered back to my table to “share” the prize with my chums.
Then one of the girls tells me that you shouldn’t drink milk, or eat milk chocolate, before singing, as it thickens the saliva and dries out the mouth. We were due up for our turn on stage at any moment, and as I had to sing solo the opening verse of Green Grow the Rushes O, not to mention our group rendition of Lannigan’s Ball, my consternation was extreme. Wiping the last vestiges of choc from round my gob, I thank her for this wisdom and stored the rest of the choccies away “for later”.
So, if milk and milk chocolate really thicken the saliva, that should be a good thing for whistlers, right? Eat plenty of chocolate during performances, and your soggy whistle blues are over!
Or would it clog the whistle even faster?
Some further experimentation is required I think.
Gives a new meaning to the phrase “Sickly sweet”. Igghhhhhhhhhh.
Well that may be true for whistles, but . . .
after 20 minutes of playing the “1812 Overture” what came out of the “spit valve” on my tuba could not be reasonably call “condensation” and tended to make flautists wretch.
Was that indelicate? 
Sorry!
Vinny
[ This Message was edited by: Vinny on 2002-04-05 14:41 ]
If it were purely condensed water getting through, what is in the gunge that we have to clear from the mouthpiece/head every 12 months or so???
Boyd:]
http://www.strathspeyinmay.com
A festival in the Scottish Highlands where adults can learn how to play traditional music.
Flook and Sean Potts teaching this year.
On 2002-04-05 14:40, Vinny wrote:
Well that may be true for whistles, but . . .after 20 minutes of playing the “1812 Overture” what came out of the “spit valve” on my tuba could not be reasonably call “condensation” and tended to make flautists wretch.
Was that indelicate? >
Vinny
[ This Message was edited by: Vinny on 2002-04-05 14:41 ]
Ewww!