It’s been a while since I have posted a new eBay flute find…
This is a Metzler made for Beare & Sons. Got it for the amazing low price of $85.00!
This has got to be the closest 440 tuning I have ever seen in a antique. It helps that i made a new head for it! 
Lovely. Lots of bling!
Luckily I found a old Metzler laying around in the shop that I got some parts off it… 
Any actual Metzler stamps, or are you just asserting that on style grounds? Any key stamps?
M key stamp, but it is identical to the the other Metzler, same crown, funny ofset shaped Eb key, etc.
Mmmm. Photos of key and body stamps for Terry? 
Interesting to find an assymmetrical Eb touch that isn’t an AL style key. The keys on this flute appear to have a stub-end to the arm on the cup, not the typical Liddle point going 1/2-3/5 way across the cup - are they all the same/which ones are cannibalised additions? I’ve just had in and done up a Barnett Samuel Dulcet London Improved stamped flute in much the same style (in a case case datable to no earlier than 1876) which has similar keys, but “F” stamped and a symmetrical Eb… (Yeah, yeah, pics etc. later, when I have time… - I also got a Butler 4-key piccolo which has F stamped keys.)
Bottom line, is, as we’ve said before, you can’t claim it is a Metzler unless it is stamped as such. All you can legitimately say is that it is in the style typical of and strongly associated with Metzler and Liddle. Our old “nach Metzler” joke…
None of which affects its value/desirability whatever, IMO - that is a matter of trust on your assessment of its playability (in which I have complete faith).
I still have another one lying around for you to mess with if you want it, case, lip plate, cracked head and barrel. should be fixable.
If you’re addressing me rather than Jon, Mark - sure, sling it my way when you get a chance, though it’ll join rather a queue!
Sure I can, when it is a Metzler, I will call it a Metzler… 
I believe this is an earlier model of a Metzler versus the later model that Peri is harassing me to finish… Notice the Eb key shape. With the smaller Pewter plugs, mine is in better 440 tuning. 
But we don’t know for sure if Metzler even made the ones actually stamped “Metzler”, let alone other clones, of which there are many. Curse all you want, but logic and proper observance of the conventions of provenancing aren’t on your side on this. If the first half dozen similar looking flutes you had met had all been stamped Beare or Liddle or B&S or whatever, you’d think of them as that. You (and I and others) associate this style primarily with Metzler, fair enough, but that doesn’t prove anything.
The one in the above photo is stamped Metzler. Beare and Sons were a flute dealer, so they may have bought flutes from other makers. there is no question in my mind that this is not a Metzler, i have had a few in the shop. Keywork craftmanship and design of crown are good indicators. Wylde and Metzler were both quite prolific. I have only seen on flute made by Liddle, BS Dulcet had a unique design, but I should pull out the couple that I have in the shop and see if there is any markings on the keys. You remember the Wylde flutes that one was a RRC and the other was the Beckett?
You mean the shorter scale length one with the Pratten style C/C# touches and pads, not pewters? Sure, if it is stamped, it is stamped! 
Fair enough - no probs with that statement - like B&S, Douglas & Co. and many others they almost certainly did so. Problem is, we can’t be certain Metzler were not doing the same thing - just like R&R with Wylde, etc. as you rightly point out.
??? I thought you were saying you were sure that it is a Metzler. I deservedly got a rollicking for a redundant double negative in another recent thread. I assume your “not” is a slip of the keypad/logical syntax…?
I’ve had two stamped Metzlers in this style and another stamped one that looks French made and has small holes, no bushes etc. - All 3 were mentioned (and I think photo-ed) in Terry’s stamps and measurements threads earlier this year. (And we’ve discussed them before.) I’ve also had about half a dozen similar looking flutes - I agree about the similarity of craftsmanship etc. - through my hands, some with AL keys, some not. But I would not and I maintain one CANNOT legitimately say that they were necessarily made by (or even for) Metzler. The new-to-me B&S Dulcet falls within that group.
Re: the similarities; you haven’t commented on the precise style of the keys which I mentioned above - the form of the attachment of shank to cup. SFAIK AL ones always have the pointed arm, as do others, but I have yet to see AL on the rounded arm end (Rudall) style ones. I’ve also only seen pointed ones on actual stamped Metzlers, but have seen rounded ones on several of the “nach Metzlers”. Of course, different detailing of the keys is not necessarily definitive, as if the theory that keys were out-sourced is right, then Metzler could have used more than one source/style of key.
Hey now… I’m not harrassing you to finish. I just figured you found my poor lifeless, neglected, unloved and driven to flutracide, dessicated husk of a Metzler laying in some forgotten dusty corner of your shop and simply canabalized it for what little it had left of it’s tiny life give.
How to make guilt work!
Okay, there is no question in my mind the this is a Metzler, if you want to split hairs, go ahead…if you can show me any other maker that would have a identical crown and Eb key with M stamped under the C# key, then that is probably a Metzler too! 
Yes, I found it in the corner, when I was sweeping up the shop, the rats had chewed on it a little, but I can fill it with some colored wax…
It isn’t splitting hairs, Jon, it’s about being strictly accurate and intellectually honest about what you can and can’t legitimately say. Like art historian experts saying, “Yes, that unsigned Rubens style cartoon is by Rubens, I’m sure of it and I’m the world leading authority on Rubens,” a museum buying on the strength of that and then 20 years later some scientific advance proving it can’t be because it’s on a kind of paper Rubens couldn’t have had, or whatever. Or Obama’s birth certificate. Etc.
The “M” stamp on the key doesn’t help much, either - we have “M” stamps on other-brand flutes, if I recall Terry’s stamps info aright (haven’t checked), but stamped Metzlers most commonly have “AL” keys. Similarly we have “F” stamped keys on anonymous or other-brand flutes, which might be for Fentum; but stamped Fentum flutes have other key stamps… Have we any properly verifiably Metzler flutes with “M” stamps?
Your opinion that it is very probably a Metzler could well be right (and I’d probably agree), but you cannot prove it properly and conclusively to anyone else, however satisfied you are in your own mind, so you should use appropriate conditional language about it.
My Thomas Glen has an “M” stamp on C#.
