I was reminded of this from the recent “Hallelujah” thread, about how interpersonal relationships can be made, broken, or strengthened purely based on affinity for certain music.
The book I’m reading right now is I am a Strange Loop by Douglas Hofstadter (author of Godel, Escher, Bach). Without going into too much detail about the book itself (I’m sure those of you interested enough can find out on your own), I wanted to share a passage I just read which made me put the book down while I digest it. Here it is:
… Speaking of which, Emm, how did I know that you would be among the first to reply to this thread?
In context, the author is discussing how his late wife continues to truly live within his “self”, and in a broader context, how people have within their own selves individual “mini-selfs” of other individuals with whom they closely align themselves. The closer individuals are in alignment, the more accurate the internal representation of the ‘other self’. He was using as an example, the music of Bartok: He wrote of a friend with whom he shared an uncommon amount of musical taste, which included Prokofiev, but not as yet, Bartok. The friend shared a recording of Bartok with him, and he just didn’t grok it at all, which puzzled both of them, because their other shared musical tastes were so in sync. This presumed understanding, which turned out to actually be inaccurate, eventually led to a falling-out of their friendship.
An extreme example, to be sure, but powerful nonetheless.
An interesting thesis, perhaps someone could connect people based on their Ipod playlists.
I rarely get to know a person’s musical taste so well, so I can’t testify on how well it works. I don’t listen to much popular music, other than American Idol. I spend a good deal of time writing and playing my own music. No one in the world will share my particular taste unless they become cowriters with me, and that hasn’t happened.
A lot of kids have very much niche tastes because there is so little music that has broad appeal these days, and so much segmentation and smaller bands. I do think that this has to do with the feeling of disconnect in American society. Back 30 years ago, when there were fewer musical choices, most folks had some commonality of musical exposure. There is a lot less of that today and it is not just generational.
BTW - not just the “Fire and Rain” JT, but the “Secret of Life” JT.
JT is one of the modern generations greatest singer/songwriters, and a consummate performer who makes you feel like you’re sharing quiet conversation in his living room.
I would argue that the opposite has happened, once recordings started popping up people could be freed from the local musicians and church functions and could expand what they listened to. Many of the things we take for granted know, like Cisco Huston and Beatles songs have expanded to other genres a like Guitar Hero and SUV adds. Much like the children of my age probably could not identify “The Chicken Reel” unless you told them that it was the “Foghorn Leghorn” tune. I would say that the individual songs may seem like individual songs may be from a niche, but as a whole the play lists have expanded to world music, beyond our great American tunes. The bottle neck of radio play has been removed. I have heard rap tunes with samples of fife tunes and techno using samples of classical… …and then there is that Trent Resner song done by that country singer.
But I may be missing the point. It is strange, because it seems that radio and TV keeps trying to find it’s demographic to cater to (the one with disposable income) and so often the teen-boy-bands were what were played. This needed the young/sexy bands to be cycled through every five years.
I think that this commercial bottle neck was more responsible for a past disconnect than what we are currently seeing. With more options to purchase and listen to music. It seems that many albums that were discontinued due to lack of interest are now being re-released and allowing people find recordings of yester-year in a way that was not possible in the 70s-90s. Add to this the difficulty of copyright and affording songs to perform in school and church settings, during that period it seems that it was a cultural road block that the next generations have been finding less difficult to get bypass and get in touch with the past, learn about other forms of music, and be connected outside of their small geographical location.
I do completely agree with this statement. At least it always worked for me. But maybe this could also be true for other fields, people sharing common interests or passions are more likely to be attracted by each other.
I believe what Hofstadter is saying here goes far beyond sharing a common interest. Music, above all else, speaks directly to the soul of an individual like no other medium can, even more than visual arts which only can occupy 2 or 3 dimensions (usually – disallowing ‘kinetic sculptures’). What’s even more interesting is that the author, AFAIK is not even a musician himself, just a music appreciator.
Music speaking directly to the soul - that might be an individual thing nevertheless. Being a musician at heart, i can say that there is no other thing that touches me like music does.
But other people may be completely fanatic about painting or poetry or even sports. For these people, music may do nothing at all but their own passion does or might do …
I believe it. I am real close to my brother, and we have exactly the same musical taste. If one of us gets into something new, it’s just about guaranteed that the other other will like it. I even got him playing the pennywhistle
I think there is something to be said for the communal experiencing of music and different groups certainly do use different music to identify themselves. Organizations, sports teams, TV shows, and political movements often have their particular “theme songs.” On just a general listening level, it does seem that when listening to music, people may be more open about expressing emotion.
At hte same time, we shouldn’t idealize the way music bonds us/drives us apart. Some of it is just as shallow as the any other issue of following popular trends and belonging to a certain social circle.
I agree, there are people I love playing music with but who I have nothing else in common with and who I really don’t consider to be my friends. Then there are other people I love playing music with who I consider to be my friends for life.
So while music is one element that connects us to other people, I wouldn’t overestimate it’s importance in creating lasting friendships even if it creates temporary connections.
One day perhaps those feelings will come out in sbfluter’s music, but right now they’re coming out in her words. Being that this is a music forum, it’s probably safe to assume that most people involved are moved in some way by music, but let’s not underestimate the power of language. I’ve been a musician since forever, and I’m an English major (creative writing, specifically) in college, so I’m straddling that line every day of my life.
Point is, emotion is something that can be expressed in anything. I’ve seen my mother express an intense anger with a mop and bucket. Music is wonderful. Language is wonderful. Let’s not get all condescending when someone says they find one speaks to them more strongly than the other.
And, sbfluter: The fact that words move you more than music has no bearing on what kind of musician you are. The one has nothing to do with the other.
With a lot of the vocals with rock and other genres of music, I was never able to understand the words that were songs. A friend and I joke that a song could be about whacking baby seals and as long as it sounded pretty, we’d never notice.
I also see a big difference with some of the famous artists regarding what they sing about and what shape their personal life is in. Often the two aren’t related at all.
