just recently I sold my lovelly delrin Hammy and the was lucky enough to buy it back
so I guess its an omen that its with me for good, or at least until I get a keyed one.
I read somewhere online that if you move the headjoint cork back to about 24mm instead of
the standard 19.5mm the flute will play much edgier, well it might be just me but it does,
now the article was regarding Hammy Hamilton, and that I think he didnât reccomend it as quite a few flute students were doing this, I have tried to re-find the article but with no luck.
what are the pitfalls of doing this, probably a stupid question.
The way I understand it is if you move the cork further back that youâre essentially elongating the bore of the flute, thus flattening the pitch. You can probably push it harder to get notes into tune, getting that edginess youâre talking about, but risk getting the flute out of tune with itself. Others, like Terry, Jem, Dave, etc can answer this better than I can. But it seems youâre trying to change the flute in order to get the effect youâre embouchure canât yet. Hammyâs are capable of that sound youâre describing-keep working at it. Rule of thumb is the distance from the center of the embouchure hole to the face of the cork should be equal to the diameter of the headjoint (thatâs inside diameter, usually measuring the metal lining). Good luck.
Oh, btw, if youâre wondering what Hammy recommends, just contact him. Iâm sure heâll help you out.
Itâs not so much flattening the pitch overall as disrupting the balance in tuning between the octaves.
If you want a harder tone, you could glue a piece of metal (some coins are sized well for this; it would be a good use for some of the old Irish coins I still have that are worthless in the age of the Euro) onto the edge of the cork and adjust the distance so itâs still in line with the rule-of-thumb measurement that Irish Marine described.
Disrupting the balance b/t the octaves is much more accurate. Thanks for that Brad. Iâd never heard of gluing a coin to the cork before-interesting. Does a metal rather than cork face make that much of a difference? Iâm curious.
it appears hammy uses a cork where the face is not flat, but is actually concaved. so bear in mind if you measure it the edges will be closer to the emb. hole than the centerface, or if you want to sticking something on it.
The âstandardâ you mention of 19.5mm is only a standard for the modern flutes perhaps (and hardly standard within a range of a few mm plus or minus). For a traditional tapered bore flute such as the ones we use for Irish music, this position is way too close. On my flutes I find a cork position ranging around 23 or 24mm to be best in terms of overall performance.
The flute is tuned with this cork position. The process is pretty simple. Holes are drilled in place a little undersized and the cork is set to a standard. The first octave is tuned by resizing the holes a little larger until the first octave notes are in tune. The 2nd octave will play a little flat for most notes at this point. The second octave notes are brought into tune (approximately 20 cents sharp of the first octave equivalents according to my tuner) by undercutting each to the degree needed. The shape of the undercut also helps voice certain notes such as the E and A, which tend to play weaker because of their size. Once an appropriate tuning balance is achieved, the flute is then bore sanded and oiled.
Moving the cork away from the makerâs recommended position to an elsewhere stated âstandardâ will upset this balance. The main thing to remember is that these are different instruments than the modern flute. Its as if you would convert a piano to gut strings - simply because that is the âstandardâ for the violin!
Iâve run into a few repair issues over the years where the player simply adjusted the cork to 19mm - thinking that was normal (they apparently never read the care instructions where I state 23mm!) and then found the flute to play like it was stuffed with cotton. Simply moving the cork restored everything.
Why is that âin tuneâ? 20 cents sharp is sharp for me and not in tune. Or is there a secret in flute tuning I didnât know?
Regarding the topic, the cork position is also a matter of the player. I usually have my fluteâs cork at about 17mm which works nicely. No tuning issues (perhaps cause Iâm used to it?) and a nice and clear tone. Moving the cork further out adds noise to the tone, which I donât like. Iâm wondering how the cork will be set in my new flute which is due to arrive quite soon - Iâll probably move it in as wellâŚ
That doesnât make sense. Undercutting would make them even sharper then. Casey also stated that the upper register notes start out flat and are brought into tune by undercutting.
I use an old Korg Tuner. Also my ear. The Korg is a machine and measures a tempered tuning. But for some reason if the octaves are tuned at 0 with respect to each other, my ear records the 2nd octave as flat. Clearly what the Korg hears and what the ear hears are different.
C. Nederveen in his book on wind instrument acoustics has measurements of tuning profiles of several instruments including modern as well as simple system flutes. The second octaves are always about 20+ cents sharp with respect to the first. Also, the tuning is somewhat all over the place, with the leading tones to the 2nd octave being sharper.
Iâve tried other tuners besides the old trusty Korg and find the same tuning discrepancies. The ear rules - the tuner is just a reference point. But the 2nd octave being sharp is the result that I observe on the tuner for notes that sound in tune to my ear.
I have one of Hammyâs flutes and when I met him over the summer he took a quick look at it. He seemed to follow the standard that the cork should be the same distance from the center of the embouchure hole as the diameter of the bore of the head joint. For my flute, this would be about 18 mm (just measured but donât have a very accurate ruler) and when he looked at it the cork was in the âwrongâ place. However, he moved it to the ârightâ place and it completely screwed up the tuning - what he did made it slightly easier to hit higher notes with a sweeter sound, but the lower register wasnât as nice and the octaves were not in tune with each other. I then had to spend a couple days trying to figure out what âwrongâ place it had been in because the way it was before it played much better (in my opinion). So, now my cork is at about 20mm, the octaves are pretty well in tune with each other, and I get a nice rich sound in the low register.
I donât know if any of that helps, but thatâs been my experience.
Talasiga, you took the words right out of my mouth. People with good musical sensitivity tend to prefer intervals that are based on rational numbers, which, as you say, is a class of just intonation. However, reading the above comments from players and makers alike, I would find it hard to generalize about the âbestâ position of the tuning cork. However, I think that you would have to give weight to those who have been making and tuning flutes for many years.
I have found that Pratten models like to have the cork about 21mm, where Rudallâs like about 19mm. I usually set the cork position by checking the first and second octave of A and B notes.
Hmmm.My maker seems to have retired, or died, or something, since he is no longer on the 'net and does not respond to emails, so I cannot consult him.
However, since someone did the hard part before I acquired this flute, the cork is in a very sweet spot. . .octaves are in tune and strong toned, as well as easily shifting from octave to octave. I measure this cork at 20 mm in a lined head of 18.1 mm dia.
According to the cached website on the 'Wayback Machine, this flute started out based on a Prowse flute with some modernisation.
Thanks for that, Casey. Of course what we hear and what electronic gadgets measure are two different things. I usually use the tuner to determine a starting point for tuning (usually the two or three finger note in the 1st register) and go on by ear then. I was fine tuning my newest F flute the other day and noticed that a newly tried-out hole position (RH1) was wrong, the second octave was sharp. So I checked against the tuner and it showed 20-22 cent. Thatâs why your message took me aback a bit. I think that this is not too bad, a good embouchure will easily blow the upper register in tune (and casually forces the player to learn that the second register needs less air than the first!), but for my very ears, the 20 cents, without special embouchure attention, clearly were sharp.
I solved the problem with a bit of wax northside and undercutting southside and will bore the hole a bit further down the tube next time. The second octave is reasonably well tuned now, xxxooo and xxoooo being still a bit sharp (about 5-10 cents), but that works for me.
I shouldnât try to post while the wife is talking to me⌠Iâll be back tomorrow.