Moving onto low whistles...any advice?

For your price range the Susato might be the thing.

Price aside, of all the Low D’s I’ve played the MK is the one that performs most like an ordinary High D, so for that reason I would highly recommend it for any experienced high whistle player who wants to get into Low D’s.

It seems that the low whistles I have in my price range (I’m only a student!) are Tony Dixons, Susatos, Shaws and Syns. (I must admit though, If I discover a particularly special one a little outside my initial idea of spending range then I may well be very tempted to push towards it.)

I think the makers I’m leaning towards at the moment though are Tony Dixon and Susato (though like I said, I’d want one without keys - I see no reason not to learn the piper’s grip!).
Having listened to recordings of the Syn Low D I’m not so sure I like the tone as much as other lows to ne honest, and though Shaws are lovely, from what I’ve read the amount of breath they take make them a poor choice for someone just starting out on low whistles.



I’d not heard of MKs before, so thanks for bringing them to my attention. I had a look at their website, and I’m sure they’re great, but they’re also almost £200…perhaps once I’ve been playing low for a couple of years first, then I can better justify the extra cost…

Hmmm, quite honnestly I think you’ve got the wrong instrument if you wanna compete with an evil box :wink: My personal take on this, and it’s only personal taste, is that the high whistle will reach much more then the low whistle, but a high whistle can
be very annoying if not handled properly. The low whistle will never have as much reach as a flute. Also, I tried a Susato, and well, you should stay away from them as far as I’m concerned, but maybe they’ve got better.

So, bottom line, I don’t think you’ll ever find the volume and reach you’re looking for in a low whistle. You should pick the flute :wink:

If I might make a friendly suggestion. Buy a whistle and start enjoying it. :slight_smile: So see if this logic works for you.

I agree with Azalin, you are talking about a flute there. But if it is a low D you seek, then…

It sounds like you have already crossed the Syn off your list. That’s fine. Erle makes nice whistles. They do have a unique tonal character. I only own his high whistles but I am sure the low D is a fine instrument.

The Shaw is a “love it” or “hate it” whistle, IMO. You won’t know until you try one. It’s not my cup of tea. The air requirements on the Shaw can be mitigated with tweaks similar to those frequently done on Clarke’s original high whistles. If you don’t want to tweak, don’t buy one.

I agree with the Dixon polymer as a first low D whistle. I’ve owned several Dixon poly low D’s. Yes there are better(subjective assessment) instruments but there are few downsides with the Dixon. It has a good sound. It has a reasonable hole size and spread. It is readily available. Breath requirements are reasonable. It is durable. It is a good low D whistle to learn on. The only down side I see is that it may be a little quieter than some other whistles. Buy one!

I played a Susato as my “go to” for about six years but always felt I was wrestling with it. The Susato is a good whistle but it’s going to be harder to “come to grips” with than a Dixon. It takes more air than the Dixon. Holes size, especially B2(the size of a small pot-hole), may take some getting used to. But you will get a stronger tone and more volume over a Dixon.

But if you want to continue to analyse things, just keep saving your money and then buy a Goldie or a Burke. :slight_smile:

Hope that helps.

Feadoggie

Ah, you misunderstand me. It’s not that I’m after an instrument to be heard better than a high whistle. It’s more that I want a low whistle, and if it’s a model thats good for volume and reach in a session then thats just an added bonus to it being a low whistle! :stuck_out_tongue:

EDIT: You posted your reply while I was typing this one Feadoggie. Some helpful advice there thanks. By the look of the way things are going I might well end up with a Tony Dixon (though not necessarily a polymer one, I could get a metal one I think - any thoughts?).
I’ll be ready with one chosen by the time I’ll be getting one though, my plan is to ask for one as a birthday (or birthday/Christmas combined!) present! :slight_smile:

…or if money is an issue, make your own, Guido style…

or (cheap self motivated post here) take a look at the susato low D (no keys) i’m selling on e-bay… just sayin’

be well,

jim

I have an old style Chieftain low D that’s pretty loud. It requires a lot of air, and will drive you to improve breathing technique, but very cool sound.

Mark

Hi, Rowney. I own two low whistles and I’m new to them. I contacted Mack Hoover for my first one. You may have seen him post on this forum from time to time. According to his website, Mack only makes about 20 whistles a month. I highly recommend his low whistles. They’re affordable and very easy to play and sound terrific in my opinion. I think it cost around 40 USD. Now, I don’t know about the overseas shipping cost, but if you e-mail him directly he’ll fill you in. He’s a prince of a guy. Hope you find what you’re after!

Bill

Hmmm… when I’m playing in a group my goal isn’t to be noticed, rather it’s to try to blend in. But it’s true that many Low D’s get drowned out in the low notes when playing along with a big noisy session.

At least at our local session the Burke and the MK both have the right volume. Actually the Burke is a bit too loud on the higher notes. What I noticed is that though the MK and Burke have about the same volume in the low and mid range the MK blends in with the other instruments more, while the Burke stands out a bit more. So it’s a timbre thing evidently.

If I may add a question about playing to Rowney’s thread:

Those of you that play both, do you use identical ornamentations on low and high D whistles? I am finding that some ornamentations, such as the short roll, tend to not work as well on the low. But that is likely just my playing. Anyway, are there differences in playing style, or are they pretty much interchangeable?

Thanks!
Tom

Yes, pretty much the same. But that’s just me.

I also take advantage of the more generous windway size on lower whistles to play around with the embouchure and the resulting timbre changes (varies from one whistle design to another). And I find the occasional use of harmonics easier on the lower whistles (for music other than ITM). But you might file these under “stupid whistle tricks” in the end, not ornamentation.

Feadoggie

Depends on what you mean by “use”. Yes, my inventory of ornaments is identical on high and low whistle. My application of that inventory to creating a setting of a particular tune may be different between the two, exploiting their different strengths.

It’s better to think in terms of articulations, and the effect you’re going for. If a particular effect (e.g., short roll) isn’t as crisp on low whistle, then the problem isn’t the ornament but the execution. Cut with a higher note, or with 2 fingers. Tap with 2 fingers. Lift your fingers higher for more definition. There’s more than one way to do it. Use more tongue articulation of the roll elements. Or more breath push, which low whistle does better than high.

Yes, on low whistle I might use less finger articulation, and more breath effects, sliding, finger vibrato. You play to the expressive capabilities of the instrument.

Doggie and Guru–that helps–thanks. I’m working through the latter chapters of the Ochs tutorial, trying to get a bit more of a “traditional” sound to my playing, but I’m doing it with the low whistle, still trying to master that pipers grip–might as well kill two birds with one stone. Since I am so separated from the tradition, I am taking McCullough’s advice and deconstructing each tune meticulously to try to figure out what he did when, then reproduce the tune as close as possible to the way he did it. Except, of course, an octave down. I figure if I can master this stuff on the low whistle, maybe it should transfer easily to the high.

My main challenge, I think, is not the articulations themselves, but rather How and When I play them. So the Guru’s comments are especially helpful. I just have to get a better ear for the style before I can start getting creative with it. I’ve been creative for too long–now I have to go back and learn it right…wish I had done this ten years ago! :laughing:



I have some further questions about this process, but I’ll quit hijacking Rowney’s thread now.

T

No worries, it’s advice I can use too!

I have another question of my own though; what are people’s opinions on the differences between metal and polymer whistles? Is one discernibly ‘better’ than the other, or do they just have different qualities which are useful for different needs and requirements?

A lot has been said about different materials in whistles and you can search through the archives here for various opinions. This is just my experience so take it for what it is worth. What matters most is the design of the whistle and the execution of the design objectives. A specific material can lend itself for better or worse to fulfulling a design. No one material is better than another. I play whistles in a variety of woods, aluminum, brass, nickel, ABS, CPVC, PVC, etc. I can show you very good whistles made in each of those materials. I can show you whistles in each material that are not so good. Then consider that most whistles are made of a combination of materials, either by design or convenience. I could go on…

Personal preference comes into consideration as well. Some people just don’t like metal whistles. Some only like wooden whistles. Many don’t care for “PLASTIC” but may prefer “POLYMER”. Your opinion may vary from mine and so on.

What matters most, IMO, is that you play a whistle that meets your needs and does not limit your learning the music. What whistle works for you in that regard will change over time. You’ll know when to change whistles (or not). Keep it simple. Buy a whistle, and play, play, play.

Feadoggie

In most cases a whistle is only as good as its operater, regardless of what material it’s made from. It comes down to personal preference. I will say that you will get more initial condensation from those with metal windways than those with a combination of metal and other materials, or no metal at all. A Goldie/Overton/Kerry style whistle takes a little more work to warm up to playing speed (then remember to keep it warm while taking a break) than, say, a Dixon polymer, but the work is worth it in the case of the Goldie/Overton. I have no experience with the Kerry. Nor can I speak about the many quality wood whistles out there. I love my Dixon Polymer for it’s ease of playing, as I do my home made PVC Low F for the same reason, but the quality of sound that I get from my Goldie far outweighs my other low whistles. So you see it really is a personal thing. Yes, I know Goldies cost more, but Dixons wouldn’t be cheap either if they were made from (thick) aluminium instead of polymer.


Mick
P.S I vote for SYN Low D for the best of both worlds, and in your price range :smiley: :thumbsup: . Shameless, I know.

It’s an interesting queston, one it seems with a lot of different answers.

In listening to old-time players it seems that there was a huge gulf in stylistic approach between the high whistle and the flute.

Then low whistles came along. How to play them? Like a high whistle? Like a flute? Somewhere in between?

Initially, because I came from the flute, I played my Low D pretty much like a flute, with very little tonguing and simpler ornamentation and more reliance on “breath pushes”. But as I’ve moved away from the flute and spent more time on the Low D I’ve found myself gradually doing more tonguing and more ornamentation. The way I’m playing now is sort of halfway between the old flute style and old whistle style I guess.

To answer the question about the difference between metal and polymer whistles. Thee are benefits to both. Metal whistles have a slightly more metallic resonant sound, while polymer whistles don’t clog as easily because they don’t stay colder than thier environment like metals do. Some polymer and man made materials actually are louder than metal whistles, but most of this is due to the design, not the material. I honestly can’t make up my mind which I like better, which Is why I make and sell both.

BTW, not sure how other makers do it, but I always refund money if people aren’t happy with my whistles, including the return shipping (which means I actually lose money if you aren’t happy with my whistle, especially If I send it overseas) So feel free to try out anything from my site, and know that if it isn’t what you are looking for you aren’t stuck with it.

Cheers!

Thought I’d let you all know, I did eventually get my low whistle today! I went for a tuneable Dixon alloy, and I am pleased with it. :slight_smile:

Thanks for all your advice.