Monzani &Co flute, Advise required and possibly for sale.

Irish Flute
1

Hi all,
I have a flute by Monzani &Co which I am considering selling but thought it wise to consult some flute minded individuals first! ( I am an uilleann pipe maker/player and usually dwell in that forum)
It is made in a dark hardwood that I would say was ether Cocus or Blackwood of very good quality.
It is stamped Monzani & Co, 28 Regent Street, Piccadilly, London, and is numbered 2556.

All the metal fittings and keys are in silver and one decorative mount is hallmarked. Each key is stamped on the underside of the touch with the makers monogram identical to the one with the hallmark.

TM
HH

The flute is in four pieces, 1, head-joint with decorative fluting, 2, head-joint tenon piece, 3, body section and 4, foot joint.
There are ten keys in total, two of which, on the body section operate the same tonehole and are interconnected.(not sure if you guys would count this as one key?)
All the keys are stamped with a crown motif on the pad end.
The total length of the flute is 717mm (28, 3/16") aprox, and the sounding length is 629mm (24 3/4") aprox (give or take 1 or 2 mm)

There is some damage to the instrument,one of the keyblocks has been mostly knocked off along with one side of its guide block. This has an old repair in the form of two metal posts of the later key mounting method.( these have not been particularly well installed but should not present much hindrance to a block graft)

The head-joint is exhibiting a crack, this is on the opposite side to the embouchure hole and comes nowhere near it. it is a clean crack and runs along one of the decorative flutes so I should imagine this would be quite repairable along with the block.

Other than a chip on the insert with the cork, the whole thing is in very nice condition as far as I can tell.( other than the above mentioned damage)
It is in what I think is the original box, mahogany with green velvet lining. It has also got the small metal tool to unscrew the keypads and springs.
There are also two piccolo’s? in the box one stamped “Riviere and Hawkes” and the other simply “London Make”, I don’t know if ether of these are any good but are certainly not in the same quality bracket as the flute but will remain with it.

I can post more pics if needed.

Any information you guys could give would be greatly appreciated. Really I could do with knowing the desirability and value of her firstly as I could only speculate a guess at it presently.
As I don’t play it and it is obviously quite an aged and perhaps desirable piece I would be looking to sell it to someone who would appreciate and look-after it.

Will leave it with you all anyway and hope some of you can advise.
Thanks in advance,
Chris.

2

The crown stamp is likely a Hallmark, which would indicate that the keys are silver. If you compare what you see carefully with the photos on a site like this, you should be able to identify the date and city of manufacture.

3

Cheers for that, I have looked at the hallmark and from what I can see the date is, (i)1824, it is stamped with the lion passant for sterling, and the monarch stamp is George IV. The only other mark is Monzani’s stamp. (TMHH) no assay city mark.

The crown motif on the keys is also stamped above the Monzani &Co stamp so must presume this is another one of his marks.

The hallmark site is a handy resource so thanks for the link will use that again.

4

From the keywork, it looks like you’ve got a flute with a B-foot (one more note than usual) as well a double touch on the Bb key, which is also often seen on a Monzani. The value is going to depend largely on how well it plays in A=440hz. Through the nineteenth century, ‘concert pitch’, the standard pitch that orchestral instruments were made to be tuned to, was shifting. These days, the standard is 440 hz for the A, which on a flute is the note you get with two fingers down. If it can play at that pitch with the tuning slide in a reasonable position, it’ll be worth more than if it can’t.

It looks like a flute with ‘small holes’. Another change during the 19thC was an increase in the size of the tone holes in simple system flutes (which made them louder) rising to a peak about mid-century, when Ted Boehm’s silver flute was invented. ‘Irish’ flute style players tend to prefer the louder, large-holed flutes. All else being equal, a small-holed flute will likely fetch a lower price.

Finally, the tough economy means this is a buyer’s market for wooden flutes (and much else, I imagine). A lot more instruments of all kinds are being posted here for sale, and I think they’re taking longer to sell. Any buyer certainly has more choice than usual.

Monzani was a respected maker, but isn’t one of names that now command the big bucks. It looks like yours is a high quality flute which isn’t - quite - in the most desirable bracket. I have no idea what they’re now going for at auction. My (wild) guess would be somewhere between $1,500 and $3,500, with either end fairly unlikely, but I could easily be wrong.

5

Looks like a beautiful flute! Most of the Monzani flutes from this period, were made by Hill. Here is a link to a site that gives you more info on the flute. http://www.oldflutes.com/articles/monzani.htm

6

My own Hill/Monzani flute is stamped: Hill late Monzani & Co, 28 Regent Street, Piccadilly, London, and is numbered 2450 ~ 106 before yours but the keys are hallmarked “r” for 1832 so you can’t assume the woodwork was made at the same time as the silver keys.

I like my own flute a lot and have had a few very good players try it out with the following comments:
Chris Norman said “Don’t ever sell that flute”
Steph Geremia said “Will you sell it to me?”
Stephen Doherty said “That might be the best antique flute I’ve played”

What’s yours worth? Probably more that anyone will pay you for it because it’s got the “wrong” name stamped on it.

Cheers
Graeme

7

Thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated. :thumbsup: After digesting it all and having a look around I am still unsure with what to do with her, I feel bad just keeping it here in the box to look at every now and then.
As it would probably not be of interest to trad players does anyone know what type of player/music it may suit
Cheers, Chris.

8

Trad players are still the best market, I suspect. Early music types are snobbier than God, and your flute is a bit later than they’re interested in and has too many keys.

Yours is a London-made, originally high-end flute, and looks like its in excellent condition. It’ll fetch a good price. It probably isn’t going to fetch a GREAT price, but the modest four figures is quite likely. Don’t take my statement that this isn’t the most desirable maker to mean that your flute is undesirable. It’s just not one that’ll sell itself on name alone.

As Graeme pointed out, some Monzani flutes are excellent. If you intend to sell it, consider finding someone who’s willing to say how readily it plays in modern pitch. Paying a few bucks to a maker/restorer (several of whom post to this board) for a pre-sale check up is likely to pay off.

9

Cheers again s1mOn,
I have a friend that makes/repairs flutes that trained at Newark college but have not had time to get to see him so perhaps its worth visiting him with it. I would have asked him initially but he must be away as no answer! Typical.
I did mention there was some damage so perhaps it would be worth getting that seen to before selling also.
Off to Newark it will have to be then! Will let you know the verdict I get.
Thanks for your time in replying to my posts,
All the best, Chris.

10

Fair enough, but remember that simple-system flutes are very different animals from a boehm flute. If your mate’s trained on the latter, he may never have had his hands on a tuning slide, know what ‘a reasonable distance’ might mean in the context of the extension of one, or be able to judge whether the cork’s in the right place. He will certainly be able to determine if any pads are leaking.

Ps: If you do decide to ‘get that seen to’, don’t have the work done by anyone but a wooden flute specialist. A Boehm flute repairman is not qualified.

11

He makes and plays Irish flutes so all should be well, will just get him to have a gander at her and give me his honest opinion.
will take note of your points and address them with him and see what he comes up with.
If I am unsure I can always post another question on here as you are all very helpful.
I understand that it is a historical instrument and therefore would not let someone unqualified to do so work on it, so fear not I shall keep it safe from the untrustworthy repairmen.
I have seen old pipes and violins in some very upsetting conditions, ruined by the hands of probably well meaning, but nevertheless unskilled/unqualified people. It is sad but at least I think people are becoming more aware of preserving the integrity of makers work these days, and forums like these do help greatly to get advise that may not have been readily available in the past.
I am a firm believer that if it’s not your specialist area leave well alone!

My intentions for selling the flute are not for reasons of financial gain or just making a quick buck, I just want it to go to a good home and to be appreciated for what it is. I was not expecting a grand sum for her and would even sell with the damage to someone that would get the work done properly. Failing that I would prefer to keep it myself and know at least that it was not coming to any harm.
cheers, Chris.

12

Hi all,
Just thought I would let you know that I did find a home for the flute. Its gone to a member of the forum and will be restored and played. I hope he has many years of pleasure playing her.
Many thanks for all your help :thumbsup: will let you know if I ever come across any more stray ones that need a new home!
All the best,
Chris.

13

Congratulations!