I’m not asking people what they think of Vignoles as a pipe maker, a person, or a business man. I’m looking at a used set of his and someone suggested I ask how his pipes perform in the United States. Were I to buy a set that was made reeded by Micheal in Ireland would I in all likelihood just have to get it reeded again considering incongruencies in New Jersey vs. Galway weather?
Thanks,
John T.
There’s one advertised in the latest an piobaire (no 57). There’s no accounting for.. well you didn’t want to know that did you?
You should probably prepare yourself for that possibility. I don’t think this is something specifically limited to Vignoles reeds. In 2001 I brought a Thompson practice set from Ireland to Canada and within a few weeks the reed was unplayable. Joe Kennedy made me some new reeds which worked fine. I know of 2 other pipers with different sets having the same experience (having to replace many all of the reeds): one in Toronto and the other in NJ.
I wonder how Paddy Moloney and Liam O’Flynn get away with it: they travel extensively and supposedly still have the original Rowsome reed in their chanters.
They don’t get away with it all the time, even at the Planxty gigs i nthe Point Flynn’s reed wasn’t going very well (compared to the ones in Ennis earleir that week) and once in Brittany he was forced to play most of the Breandan Voyage on the whistle.
Make that three PJ. When I received my Robbie Hughes pipes, I had Bob G. in Toronto(who worked with Robbie at some point or other) made me a reed, since the original probably played well across the pond, but at some point clamped up. I still retain the original reed.
Daryl
My experience bringing an Irish chanter (not a Vignoles) and reed to N. America has been rather different. The reed was considered ‘hard’ in Ireland and it was a bit problematic for me there, but, in hindsight, I realize that was just my inexperience. After it was brought over here, I was having trouble with it (in hindsight again I now know that to have been my own inexperience). I had a local pipemaker fit a reed to the chanter and that reed never worked in the chanter. A second N. American made reed again failed in the chanter. I went back to the Irish reed and now with greater experience, the Irish reed plays here in Canada 365 days a year, albeit there are seasonal challenges.
The moral of this story: there is no pattern of how well an Irish made reed will respond on this side of the ocean.
I think a stiff, hard reed is best to start with.
Second moral of the story: learn to make your own reeds. Although that is something I haven’t done.
i have had alot of problems with the transition from Ireland to Ohio. Check your pm for the whole story. You should probably factor into your budget getting a new reed made. Although you maybe get lucky!
I have to disagree (strongly). Over-stong reeds IMO are one of the primary causes of learners giving up the pipes (along with dodgy instruments). A strong reed is no guarantee of immunity from climate related problems.
The latest edition of An Piobaire also recommends that learners start with an easy reed. While it’s possible that a hard reed would survive the move from Ireland to N. America, it is also likely to get even harder in many climates (i.e. where it’s drier than Ireland, which is most places). This can compound the problem, and certainly can contribute to injury and discomfort when learning the pipes. I have known of a few professional or semi-pro pipers who adopted hard reeds in order to reduce travel shock, but of those I knew of years ago most have backed off on the reed strength over the years.
There is of course no one “North American climate” so I think the main issues are with moving to indoor locations with central heating in winter or air conditionling in summer, both of which reduce humidity, or with arid regions in general.
Bill
Bill,
I defer to your superior knowledge in these matters. However, let me clarify my point. Perhaps instead of having said “a stiff, hard reed is best to start with”, I should have said based on my experience trying to learn uilleann pipes in southern Canada a stiff, hard reed is best if you want a reed that will be playable 365 days of the year. It doesn’t assist the learner to have a reed that quits for the three months of the year here when it is both high humidity and high temperature. In those conditions, my respectful submission to you is, a soft, easy to blow reed just fails.
On more than one occasion I have obtained a soft cane reed, it worked like magic in the spring when it was still cool but humid. It was far more conducive to learning, I made great progress and my practice sessions were longer because less presure was required and so one did not become tired. But as soon as the days became hot, the reed pooped out.
So, it is a trade off: easy to play when it will play versus hard to play, but plays every day.
Returning to the original post which started this thread, I suspect New Jersey is a good place in N. Am to play pipes. Firstly, you are by the sea and the climate will therefore somewhat approximate an Irish climate, but New Jersey does get fierce hot in summer, but the winter is milder than elsewhere on this continent. All in all, not a bad place to be an uilleann piper would be my guess. Plus, cheap flights direct to Ireland from Newark and Philadelphia airports.
You won’t believe what I’m paying to get back to Ireland from Toronto at Christmas. OK, I’m off topic. Ciao.
I beg to differ. 
John T.,
Mr. Vignoles delivered my half-set to me in Tennessee about 2 1/2 years ago. (We have a mostly humid environment here, except in winter when the heat is turned on.) He had reeds in the chanter and drones, which he had made in Ireland. While here he made a couple of additional chanter reeds (to show me his method, and so I could have extras) and brought a handful of extra drone reeds and guills and taught me how to make drone reeds.
He wasn’t satisfied with the reed he had in the chanter after the trip over from Galway and so he took my chanter with him when he left to attend a festival (where he conducted a reed-making workshop), with the promise that he would mail it back to me, with a working reed, which he did within the week. In fact he sent me two extras he had made for the chanter.
The chanter reed he made while here still plays in tune in both octaves all year long, though I try not to put the pipes through a lot of drastic temp/humidity changes. I’m still playing the same drone reeds he made in Ireland. Your mileage may vary.
He does come to the States frequently and I bet he could reed it while here if it wasn’t functioning properly.
Joseph has experience reeding his chanters as well, I think.
Rick
Rick,
I have had the very same experience with Micheal. I have one of his chnaters. He has reeded my chanter many times while in and out of the states. He has been nothing short of a complete savior to my piping because there are not any experienced pipers in columbus that know how to make reeds.
Dan
Seagull, do you mean that your chanter has needed several new reeds? What keeps happening to them?
Yeah, my chanter has had several new reeds. I have had two of them completely close together (collapse). It might be that they are two stiff, or thick to begin with. Despite all kinds of alterations i have done to them i can’t seem to get them playing. I have a reed in there now that is closer. I still need to spend alittle time with it to get it playing how i would like. The other possibilty is that Mr. Vignoles plays completely different than me. I tend to lean toward open playing and it seems like I am always pleading with my reed to give me a nice smooth sound. But, on the other side Micheal has given me the ability to play. He has helped me out on more than one occasion. It could just be my fault. Who knows!
QUOTE : The other possibilty is that Mr. Vignoles plays completely different than me. I tend to lean toward open playing and it seems like I am always pleading with my reed to give me a nice smooth sound
I don’t see why the style of playing should have any influence on a reed !
Quote “I don’t see why the style of playing should have any influence on a reed !”
Let me clarify, I am not saying that the style of playing effects the reed. That makes no sense. I was refering to different fingering styles, and stiff vs easy reeds. I couldn’t get the same kind of sound quality out of the chanter that he did. A piper will adjust the chanter to how he plays (tape, wax, rushes). I haven’t been able to get the chanter close to my desired idea of playabilty. I am not sure why this is. It could be that he was fingering the notes differently, or that he prefers a really stiff reed. Who knows. I know that it has been rather diffficult to get what i desire out of the chanter, but it seems to work for him. Again, i feel the need to thank him again for giving me something to play! It may not have played exactly how i wanted it to, but it played.
Hi Gregory:
I am well aware that this is a controversial topic, and I don’t discount your experience.
Lots of people report that damp weather reeds fail in different climates.
But this doesn’t happen to everyone; there are also lots of people who report minimal or no problems moving with their pipes/reeds to North America. So, what’s going on? Besides, many people’s experience is that wet weather reeds get stiffer and more difficult to play in hot/dry conditions (and in fact this is what one would expect as the cane gets drier and therefore less flexible), but you seem to report collapse instead.
I think it’s an interesting question - why do some reeds survive and others not? I suspect it may have to do with the amount and distribution of internal stresses in the finished reed. It makes sense that reeds with less internal stress are less likely to undergo collapse or close/open excessively with changes in humidity. My previous experience also suggests that some chanter and/or reeds designs may be more unforgiving or unstable in this regard, though I can’t generalize further than that.
I used to experience these big humidity and temperature swings when I lived in the US (North Carolina, central California, and Seattle). Mostly I used the same reeds year-round, but with some chanters I found it best to have a wet weather and dry weather reed and switch between them.
I still think that this is a much better approach (seasonal reed swapping) than trying to tough it out with a hard reed year-round. If the wet weather reeds are actually not surviving the summer (and I mean, irreversibly dying due to climate changes, not due to being adjusted to death as weather changes..) then I suspect they have high internal stresses that are doing the damage.
Also this is another reason why I think it’s a really good idea for North American pipers who don’t happen to live next door to a reedmaker to learn to make their own reeds; the changing climates may make it more important, since you may have to fiddle with the reeds a bit more than someone in an Irish clime, and it means you can pursue the low-internal-stress reeds route. While I don’t advise non-reedmakers or beginning reedmakers to attempt non-reversible adjustments to their reeds, I agree with Uillmann that reedmaking is a challenge/skill that more pipers should take on, especially in North America where density of reedmakers can be very low.
Best regards
Bill
Gathering all of the tools necessary may take a little cash and, sometimes, require some intensive hunting down but in the end both will (in the long run) result in time, heartache and cash being saved.
The best thing I have found with regard to getting into reedmaking, is the lack of heartache and dispair I feel when I break or irrevocably damage a reed. I simply recycle the staple and sometimes the binding, and go on about the business of making another one.
Sometimes, a very special reed comes along that is as perfect as perfect can be reed-wise, and when these reeds give out, it can be a very painful, emotional moment. Those reeds do not get recycled, rather, they go into a place of quiet reverence… the ‘archives’ box. They will be studied and copied as close as possible. The only mourning to be done is downing a couple of pints of the creamy black stuff, and it’s on to the next reed.
