Recently I discovered a CD that might be of interest to several of you. It’s by a 60s English accoustic folk group called Mr Fox. They made a couple of albums back then and disappeared, not quite without a trace, but certainly without selling any records. The CD comproises their two LPs, a self-titled album and another called The Gypsy.
Apart from the fact that they are ridiculously good, a few things make them stand out. First, although they write their own material, their melodies, singing and arrangements are closely based on traditional Yorkshire songs, tunes and arrangements. This is very unusual for English groups most of whom seem to have no close affiliation with their region. Second, although the band uses percussion it is traditional and bears no resemblance to rock drumming. Third, they employ pennywhistle to good effect on several tracks. It isn’t the most prominent instrument, fiddle and melodeon share that honour, but it is there in mix in several places. It is played in a style I have not heard before.
If you want to know who they sound like, Waterson/Carthy come closest. Mr. Fox have much richer instrumental textures though, although the vocals are not quite so distinguished they are still very impressive. The singers would have been much younger at the time than Martin or Norma are now. How does music this good disappear without trace while talentless contemporaries went on to successful careers? Well, the disappearance was only temporary. News about them is spreading.
Well now Wombat,you are rolling back the years now.
I first heard Mr Fox far too many years ago on a sampler CD of English Folk Music.On that CD was Carthy/Swarbriggs version of the Irish Washerwoman/Ash Plant and never in my life had I heard such Guitar playing. Mr. Fox were singing the Gay Goshawk and to my young ears it was something that was so new it was scary.So many bands that came later owe them a serious debt.
I wonder if they were ahead of their time. I think many 60s and 70s traditional groups stuck with more traditional material, less of their own, until they had made a name for themselves.
She is Martin Carthys wife and Liza Carthys Mother,not to mention a member of the Waterson family.
Oh,and she comes from a family of Irish travellers if you want to go back a few generations.
I assume that your knowledge of English traditional song is not as extensive as your knowledge of Irish trad. Surprising though that a fiddle player would not know about the Waterson/Carthy group.
As regards material that might be true, but as regards style it isn’t. Bands like Steelye Span played traditional material with rock instrumentation. Fairport Convention started out as a pop group, albeit an interesting one, before they tackled traditional songs and tunes on Liege and Lief. None of the better known groups played in anything recognisable as a traditional style any more than Planxty did. Back then it was considered risky and dangerous to play in an English style. Rock groups who looked backwards looked back to the concert hall. Very few mined the rich veins of traditional song and dance.
All of which is to say that Mr. Fox were ahead of their time in being unashamedly traditional. Isn’t it odd? Traditional music has flourished in Scotland and Ireland but in England, despite political dominance, the traditions have been largely thrown out like last year’s Christmas decorations. Traditional music can be found, but it has to be dug out.
What I don’t know about English traditional music would fill the Albert Hall, Dubh! Irish too, come to that.
I have the Swarb 4 CD collection, that’s about it. I’m more into playing than listening when it comes to English, so far. I’m sure in a couple of years I’ll have gathered a little knowledge, but so far I’m almost a blank page! Kind of exciting really.
The only close friends of mine who decorate at all at Christmas are those with small children. We all celebrate Christmas whether religious or not. My parents stopped decorating when I was about 6. It’s nowhere near as big a thing in Australia as it is in other countries I’ve lived in.
One phenomenon we have here is the street in which everyone competes to put on the most spectacular lighting display. The residents go to extraordinary lengths and people come from miles away with their children to gawk. I think if you bought into a street like that and refused to play along you would be shunned by the neighbours.
The god I no longer believe in is an austere god who frowns on this behaviour and is much more concerned about the waste of electricity.
Well, I worked at Target stocking shelves over last Christmas (about half as much fun as it sounds) and from the sheer VOLUME of lights, ornaments, tinsel, tree toppers, and really stupid looking things on strings being sold, I’d say either people do get quite a lot of new stuff every year or there were about three thousand families in the local Bellevue area having their first Christmases and needing to stock up.
Wombat,
I always felt the re-discovery and eventual flourishing of traditional music in Ireland and Scotland came from the rebirth of a sense of identity that these countries experienced in the late 50’s/60’s as they began to emerge from the socio-economic dominance of mother England.
Until then, Ireland had been a very poor neighbour that exported its people to Britain and elsewhere for work, and Scotland was to all intents and purposes a very large northern English County - North Britain.
Certainly in Scotland, hand in hand with the explosion of interest in the young and vibrant political manifesto of the Scottish National Party there was a growing interest in traditional music, language, literature and poetry which continues to this day. People began to grasp at ways to help identify who they were and trad music was one of the most popular and effective.
The English never felt the same need to emerge with their own better-defined image. Perhaps if/when political power in England is devolved to the regions there will be a similar burst of identity seeking.
Some very interesting points here Colin. Traditional music never really did go away in areas like Yorkshire and Northumberland. Clearly both these counties have a very strong sense of their identity. Perhaps it’s no accident that Mr.Fox are from Yorkshire.
One of the things I find curious is that many of the greatest preservers of the English tradition are either from Scotland or Ireland or come from families with origins in Scotland or Ireland. The Watersons, Martin Carthy, Bert Jansch, Richard Thompson, Sandy Denny all come to mind.
Although it might be true to say that the Scottish lowlands are like an English county, I don’t think the same is true of the highlands and Hebrides. Most of my direct ancestors come directly or indirectly from the highlands and islands and they brought with them a strong sense of Gaelic identity which they passed on. Much the same is true of my cousins with Irish backgrounds. In the case of my ancestors, the clearances seem to have been the catalyst for emigration, so they left Scotland at a low point in Gael self-confidence. Whether from Scottish or Irish backgrounds or a mixture, members up my family grew up knowing that to be a Gael is not to be English. My mother even knew and used many Gaelic phrases and had some of the traditional superstitions.
An amusing aside. Occasionally when I have friends around and I’m playing them traditional music, people with English backgrounds complain that they have no ethnicity at all. ‘I wish I were like you and knew where I come from’ goes the lament. Play them a little bit of Waterson/Carthy and they begin to realise that being English isn’t quite so bland after all.
I feel that we are experiencing a resurgence of interest in English traditional music and dance in the South East, though I am probably suffering from observational bias.
For the last year I’ve been playing in a weekly English Traditional mixed instrument music class, and for the Autumn terms attend a fiddle class for English traditional music. But I also know these are the only two English fiddle based classes being advertised in London, and I’m the only person attending both.
English fiddlers and collectors were more likely to write down the basic tunes than Irish players, so there is a wealth of English tunes available, with a very distinctively different flavour to Irish tunes.
Bob Pegg’s the one who played whistle on those Mr.Fox albums way back then. He also played melodeon and a few other instruments. When they broke up he made two albums with his then wife, fiddler Carolanne, then three solo LPs, so he’d recorded quite a lot by the mid 70s. The albums with his wife are said to be excellent but I’ve never heard them.
I had no idea that the rhythm section went on to play in Five Hand Reel. That’s another awesome band long forgotten. Probably again ahead of their time.
… couldn’t agree more. 5-Hand Reel were awesome. I only have some of their stuff on vinyl. I’d LOVE to get them on CD but I guess there are no plans to remaster them according to Dick Gaughan on uk.music.folk. Any band with the combined vocal talents of Bobby Eaglesham and Dick Gaughan can’t be bad.
That’s strange, I checked the 5-Hand Reel albums and I see no mention of a Bob Pegg. I know Dave Tulloch was their percussion guy 'cos he and I both worked in Rae Macintosh music store in Edinburgh about the same time and he quit to play in the band.
Many fine musicians are never mentioned on album credits due to the dreaded contracts many have to sign.Record companies take a dim view of one of their signings playing on another companies recording has it may interfere with their profits.
There are countless examples of this shameful thinking which always puts profit before quality.When Mike Oldfield recorded Ommadawn,Paddy Maloney laid done a lovely little pipe solo but was not mentioned on the credits due to contractual obligations.When the album was released in Ireland however ,enterprising record shop owners had stickers printed and stuck them on the front of the sleeve to say “Featuring Paddy Maloney of the Chieftains”.
My own favourite example is the violinist on Van Morrisons “Astral Weeks”. Three or four verses into Madame George,Van the Man sings "when you fall into a trance…"and as he hits “trance” the fiddler plays a rising arpeggio which takes this incredible song onto an even higher level than you would think possible.
Not a mention on the credits though.Must have broken the musicians heart to see all the other players credited and using the mention on their CV’s over the years.
Check it out sometime - sheer bliss.
