McGee Rudall Flute, keyless, Blackwood with slide, nice wooden case, a great instrument offered at $1285
Contact Bennc2@aol.com
Ummmm… You do realize that one of Terry’s keyless flutes, with tuning slide, only cost $1115 new?
-Mark
Yes, but there’s no long wait, and the flute is already played in.
Which type of Rudall is it? Terry shows two models on his web site.
I sold my McGee flute, when I got my Olwell. Terry makes a superb flute, so this is tempting.
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: SuiZen on 2003-01-18 14:49 ]
MarkCC:
with all due respect your a bit of a dimwit! You need to read SuiZen comments and take them to heart. Last time I checked I didn’t see any Terry McGee Flutes sitting on the shelf at WalMart!
Regarding the case:Did you read the Post?(case included!).
Why would anyone in their mind sell a McGee Flute for less than what they paid for it! You better stick with playing an Occarina!
Cordially Yours,
Mr.Fandango
SuiZen:
My Apologies for the omission…Rudall Improved
Mr. Fandango
CNN reports that Canberra is burning. Perhaps our thoughts should be with Terry and his family, we can consider the resale value of his flutes when we know he’s safe.
Just a lurking thought.
Peace,
Byron
On 2003-01-18 14:12, Byron wrote:
CNN reports that Canberra is burning. Perhaps our thoughts should be with Terry and his family, we can consider the resale value of his flutes when we know he’s safe.
Just a lurking thought.
Peace,
Byron
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/01/18/canberra.bushfires/index.html
[ This Message was edited by: Aodhan on 2003-01-18 14:37 ]
Heard about the fire – hope Terry’s all right (and everyone else in that area).
To defend Mark here for a moment, I don’t think a fairly new flute (as opposed to an antique) should rise in price when resold, for a number of reasons. Getting the flute right away is a definite plus – that’s one good reason to buy a used flute - the advantage is implicit. The other most important reason is often a price break.
While it’s true the flute is broken in, that’s not always a good thing. There is no way of knowing, for instance, how well it was kept, how often oiled, what temperature extremes it has faced. In other words, it was in another’s hands and therefore no longer under the guarantee contract between the maker and the original buyer, and so the flute comes without a return guarantee – very important to most buyers on a big-ticket purchase.
Secondly - and this is a biggie - makers improve. Terry’s flutes, in particular, seem to have undergone a transition from good but not great, to a more upper echelon product. This is a man constantly tinkering with his flutes, to better the next one. So, by default, an older McGee may be slightly less than a new one. Now, this is not necessarily true, but, unless the buyer is particularly familiar with the flute in question, it may be so. If a flute is truly worth the money – even upping it by hundreds – someone who plays it may buy it because this particular flute stands out. But few buy a McGee just because it’s a McGee – yet. And so a price break seems more in order than not.
Now, you may sell this used flute for exactly what you paid for it, upping the price for the case, but don’t be upset if some of us question it. Personally, I wouldn’t buy a used keyless for more than I could get it for new, as long as the maker is still out there, making and improving his product.
Now, let’s just hope that Terry and his workshop are out of harm’s way.
Once again I think you’re a little out of touch with reality Gordon: Used flutes from the better “New” makers routinely sell for more than “Retail” to people who don’t want to wait a year or several. That’s not my opinion, that’s just an observation of what I’ve seen used flutes by Olwell, McGee, Hamilton, Wilkes, Grinter, and the like sell for, used.
Personally, I’m not bowled over by Terry’s flutes (having recently played the RAF), and so I wouldn’t be inclined to pay the asking price in this case, however for someone looking for a McGee Flute now, even paying several hundred more than new is reasonable, since the alternative is is to live without one for a couple of years.
Loren
Totally agree, Loren.
Hey…supply and demand. People will pay big right now for a great flute they want–especially (us) impatient americans! 
I don’t think Terry’s used flutes will carry the “premium” that others will, however.
Get as much as you can for the flute, Fandango, that’s business. But please be more cordial to people who question what you’re doing. Figure out the culture here or go play the pipes.
Loren, first of all, I’m not out of touch with reality at all, but you can think what you want, and usually do. For the record, an observation is an opinion, if it is only your observation. If you want to institute a buyers’ case study, then you can tell me I’m wrong. But since this was my opinion in the first place, wrong really has nothing to do with it.
I’ve seen this go both ways, a (slight) price reduction, or – more commonly – an even cost exchange; I’ll sell you my if you pay me the same as a new one, and you get it tommorrow. I’ve rarely seen price jumps, and cases are generally thrown in on the deal. Especially for the middle-of-the-road (in terms of prestige) makers.
I suppose that some eager FAD buyers have created a market for resale that goes against common sense and patience. That said, McGee is not currently in the category of, say, an Olwell, and so what I’ve said – particularly my second point – still stands.
Mr. Fandango’s “respectfully” calling Mark a dimwit really went against the grain, BTW, and I personally hope he can’t sell the thing.
Me too. Hard to want to do business
with Mr. F.
I have two of Terry’s flutes, and one of Patrick.
It sound like people are saying that Patrick has a better name for he’s flutes then Terry, and that could be true, I don’t know.
Loren, I know what your saying about the RAF, and I think Terry chose this model because he felt that he’s Pratten compares to what others are making, but the RI is superior in intonation to other makers Rudall type flutes? I’m not sure.
I really like he’s Pratten and the key work is great. I don’t think Olwell make’s key’d flutes?
I would not want to part with one of those,
and I like Terry’s Pratten more then the RI by far, but it could be that its easier for me to play.
Anyway, judging based on the flutes I have, I would not put Terry’s flutes below Olwell’s, and with all of Terry innovations and drive to move forward I’m sure the future
for his work is exiting.
On a person to person level, they are both very nice to deal with, and I’m stocked to have a flute by them.
eilam.
I wasn’t familiar with the term RAF, so I did a subject search on RAF. Not only did I find that RAF is an acronym for Roving Ambassador Flute, but Terry as a flute maker and the RAF got very positive reviews.
Bill
First, good news; Terry seems to have survived the awful fire in Canberra personally unscathed, family and workshop doing fine, though I understand his garden was partially burned.
And in all fairness to the RAF, which did get good reviews overall, it was/is a flute that Terry knocked out for the express purpose of roving, and changing hands and climates rather quickly, it appears to be holding up well, but I would bet a custom-made flute ordered would be just a notch better than the RAF, which is saying something.
Eilam, Olwell makes wonderful keyed flutes; those’re the ones that have the 6 or more year wait-list. But just to make clear, I wasn’t saying that Terry’s were inferior, necessarily, to Olwell’s, but rather that his reputation and therefore resale value was less at this moment in time. Olwell makes a great flute, but IMHO his reputation sometimes exceeds buyers expectations, particularly among players with little flute exposure or experience to other makes and playing in general. They are top flutes, along with other makes out there, depending on what you’re looking for, and they might be the perfect flute for you, or they might not. That said, Olwell’s do bring in a heftier resale value than some other perfectly wonderful flutes out there, which for the time being includes Terry’s.
List
Like everything in life we tend to have generalizations about about people, ideas and things, and as a rule genralizations are accurate generally but not always. My point is you may percieve a Makers Flutes as being of a certain quality, but until you actually try an indidvidual Flute you have no idea if it has that magical quality or not. I’ve been playing Flute over 35 years, wooden Flutes the past 25 and can say this McGee Flute has it. It’s somewhat scary picking up a Flute, particuler for the first time and within 3 minutes you realize you have a great flute in your hands…Tone, responsiveness,balance, are all there. I’ve run into this with 2 other Flutes I’ve played one a RR with tape over the holes, the other a Pat Ollwell( and I’ve played others of his that have been very good Flutes indeed , but not ones that have that magic). I also have a Michael Copeland C Whistle in Brass without a mouthpiece Bridge that I got in 1995 that has that magic, I have many other fine Whistles, but only this Whistle has that magic.
If I have this Magic Flute why would I sell it? My main music is 18th century, my main instruments are 1 key Flutes and I really have limited interest in Irish music
. I would rather see it used by someone playing this music than languish on my Kitchen table
Mr. Fandango
On 2003-01-18 20:27, Gordon wrote:
I suppose that some eager FAD buyers have created a market for resale that goes against common sense and patience. That said, McGee is not currently in the category of, say, an Olwell, and so what I’ve said – particularly my second point – still stands.
Yeah, I’ll have to side with Gordon on this one. Unfortunately, I can’t really express surprise that yet another thread has turned into an argument with nasty overtones.
One thing that’s happened on this board in general is this rampant idea that the TRUTH is on the INTERNET. Just because we see hugely inflated prices on C&F or on eBay for flutes doesn’t mean that the market as a whole can support them. There’s more out there than just C&F, folks. And more than eBay. Heck, half the excellent musicians I know personally never even read this, and deal with makers personally, over the phone or however you do things without a computer.
Oh, and to get back into touch with reality: no one should ever just take someone’s opinion because (a) he/she’s got 1000+ posts on here, or (b) he/she has 500 flutes and whistles, or (c) he/she has good spelling. There is nearly zero accountability on the Internet, so a lot of stuff gets flung with impunity. How many of us REALLY know each other?
Maybe it’s just the impression of someone (me) who’s about 30 and didn’t go to college in the Age of the WWW, so I don’t think I find the truth on the Internet. It seems to me like a bunch of the younger crowd . . . all of whom can’t remember life before email . . . trust what they read on the internet without question.
If I practiced what I preached, I guess I never would have even responded on this thread. But, oh, well . . . I’m a very immature 30.
Stuart
Gordon, I understood what you said, I know you were not saying that one is better then the other, and was talking about the reputation “out there”.
I checked and saw that Olwell indeed makes keyed flutes, possibly because of the waiting period, I did not weight it as an option at the time, but I’m very happy with the McGee 6 keys that I have.
All in all, I feel were lucky to have these makers around.
When I first got the Olwell, I could not get a clear sound, it had to do with my embouchure being used to Terry’s flute, which is more forgiving, like the Boehm flute.
But a week later I could switch the two flutes with clear tone, no problem.
All the best, eilam.
I agree with what Mr. Fandango wrote regarding those special flutes that some of us are lucky enough to find on rare occasions.
My first wooden flute, not my first flute, was made by Terry McGee. Terry had a long wait for unkeyed flutes at the time. We exhanged emails, for months, discussing types of flutes and how to repair flutes. Finally, Terry agreed to “immediately” make the flute I wanted, because I didn’t want a tuning slide. I thought no tuning slide was more “natural” at the time. Later Patrick Olwell explained and demonstrated the merits of a tuning slide. Anyway, after several other makes and models of wooden flutes, I realize that my first flute had those magical properties. I actually knew it then, but had no basis for comparison. I wonder if what I think is that special flute, would also be considered, by other players, to have the same special qualities.
I think it is a good idea to buy a flute on approval, i.e., with return priviledges. You can return an Olwell, but I think it’s rare that anyone does.
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: SuiZen on 2003-01-19 11:56 ]
On 2003-01-18 13:40, Mr. Fandango wrote:
MarkCC:
with all due respect your a bit of a dimwit! You need to read SuiZen comments and take them to heart. Last time I checked I didn’t see any Terry McGee Flutes sitting on the shelf at WalMart!
Regarding the case:Did you read the Post?(case included!).
Why would anyone in their mind sell a McGee Flute for less than what they paid for it! You better stick with playing an Occarina!
Cordially Yours,
Mr.Fandango
Gosh, thanks for the compliment. Nothing like decent manners to convince people that you’re something they want to do business with, eh?
My point, such as it was, is that getting a recent used flute from someone you don’t know, for more than it would cost new, is not a particularly good deal.
How, exactly, the flute was cared for while it was breaking will have a huge effect on the stability of the flute as it ages. When you buy a recent used instrument, you’re taking a significant risk of buying an expensive instrument that’s already been irreperably damaged.
When you’re dealing with someone like Terry, where the wait is only about a year, the wait isn’t a huge issue.
In the case of something like an Olwell keyless, where it’s an incomparable instrument, and the wait is upwards of 7 years, I can see going for a new one, and paying a significant sum above the cost of a new instrument.
For one year, from a guy like Terry that’ll customize the flute to your tastes, and where you can’t be sure about how the flute was cared for before, I can’t see why anyone would want to pay a markup.
(By the way, I’m not saying that you didn’t take good care of the flute. I’m pointing out a general problem: when you buy online from someone that you don’t know, you can’t know how it was treated before you got it.)
Me? I’m following the advice of my flute teacher, so I’m on the waiting list for a keyless Olwell.
-Mark