Low Bb bore diameter

Technical question here … I’m curious to know what a typical head bore diameter is for a low Bb conical bore flute. I have a low Bb flute from a good modern maker that has a 20mm head bore, but I’d really like to know more about the bore profile for original Rudall and Rose low Bbs (or modern copies based on them). I wonder if anyone lucky enough to own such a flute might be willing to share some details with me? Or perhaps if I’m really lucky someone has a full set of specs for sale?

Last night I attended a Lunasa concert in Portland (which was fabulous, by the way!), and I could have sworn that I saw Kevin Crawford swap the head and slide of his D Grinter flute onto a low Bb body for one of the sets. I may have been mistaken (I didn’t have a particularly good view) but if this really was the case, then it would imply that his low Bb flute has the same bore diameter as his D flute. This, is surprising to me because the aspect ratios of two such flutes (D and Bb) would be radically different and I wouldn’t expect both to would work well. He did, however, sound fabulous on both!. So, it got me wondering.

Thanks!

Jon

20mm on all Bb flutes I’ve seen, however those were modern ones, not antiques. A board member has an antique R&R Bb flute and might want to chime in…

The typical diameter of a D flute headjoint is 19mm, and depending on the Bb flute’s design (i.e. if the head bore needs to be long or short), a D head might work reasonably well. The Bb design I’m currently working on (which I got from a friend from Alsace) has an overall headjoint length of 176mm and my D flute headjoints are 170mm. Barrel is 10mm longer on the Bb, but that and the slightly different “sounding lengths” of the headjoints are nothing you couldn’t even out with the tuning slide. However I’d still expect a 20mm head bore to perform quite a lot better.

Original R&R head liner bore just over 20.5mm (13/16"?).

The bore diameter to length ratio of course affects tone-strength and responsiveness and the relative behaviour of the 3 registers. I haven’t done the maths, but I assume that these bigger flutes have a wider ratio than concert flutes. Using the narrower head of a D flute (and designing the tapered part of the bore accordingly) will likely produce a gentler, sweeter instrument with less low register power and easier mid and high registers.

Thanks for the quick responses guys! That is very useful information. It is interesting that the original Rudalls had a bore of over 20.5mm. I think I can hear that little extra bark on the low notes compared to some of the modern low Bbs … but that may be the players, or the recording, or …

I did the math to estimate the bore diameter of a low Bb flute, based on scaling a D Pratten bore profile in a manner that should (at least in theory) preserve equal timbre. The end result is that it suggested that the Bb bore should be 21% larger than the D bore, which would put it at a whopping 23 mm compared to a Pratten D with a 19 mm bore. So clearly modern makers and R&R have gone for a longer aspect ratio on these low Bb flutes than we have on our Ds. As you suggested Jem, a longer aspect ratio should produce a sweeter tone and easier higher registers (even without adding a narrower D head). I think I can hear that when I listen to Bbs, come to think of it.

Jon

Are you sure Kevin switched into a Bb body and not into a C one?

No, I’m not absolutely sure, and I haven’t had a chance to check up.

Jon

I think the Kevin’s Bb is a seperate flute but the c body fits the D head as Lorenzo, mentions above.
Though my Burns Bb and C share the same head.

I just sent 3 Bb flutes off into the world this morning - one to the East Coast, one to Hawaii, and one to Galicia. I make about 20 such low flutes yearly. Its a great honor to have people out in the world such as Matt Molloy, John Skelton and Grey Larsen playing my low flutes on a regular basis. As a flute maker, it just doesn’t get any better than that!

Mine are based originally on a Rudall and Rose 4 key with no slide in the Dayton Miller Collection (see http://www.loc.gov/item/dcm001277). I measured this flute the first time I visited that collection sometime in the early 90s, and blew on it for just a few seconds to determine its tone quality, etc. It was a great instrument. On my next visit a few years later, I noticed the head joint had a newish crack running the length of it. I asked the curator about it and he said that someone had come in and played it for an hour or so, probably thinking he was the next Matt Molloy. Ugh! The curator at the time felt that since this was public property, that he couldn’t really limit what people did with these flutes and he had to allow people to play them. His hands were tied from above.

One of the few good things to come out of Homeland Security is much better supervision and policing of the collection. They now have security cameras set up and blowing a single note into any of these instruments is considered a Federal Offense. So far everyone has played by the rules. While it might limit evaluation of the instruments in terms of pitch, quality etc. it preserves the collection without further deterioration. A good maker should be able to estimate the pitch by measurements and if one wants to know what something sounds like, making an exact (as much as possible) copy from measurements is the way to go.

On this original the bore of the head joint is 20.25mm. On the flutes derived from this one, I usually use a 5.25 to 5.75 chimney height on these, and keep the embouchure under 11.50mm long by 10.45mm wide. The body tapers on these original Rudall Bb flutes are interesting, and reveals an economy of tooling perhaps. I discovered that the bores for the two lowest joints were very similar to sections of the bores on D flutes of the period - and thus Rudall may have simply used his D flute reamers for these parts,rather than conjuring up some new tooling. So when I tooled up I made a reamer for the upper middle joint only, and experimented with my various D flute reamers for the bores of the lower joints. It close enough and it seems to work. Generally that part of the bore is not as critical shape-wise and dimension-wise compared with higher up on the flute.

Grey Larsen and I experimented with a larger bore to the head joint for my low A, which is a derivation of this flute, to see if we could deliver more punch. We went as far as 21mm, and a slightly thicker wall. Grey had me make a head joint which he later had Chris Abell voice. Chris’s embouchure works well for Grey (I prefer my own though) and its a little large which introduced a few scaling issues. Its still in tweaking and development stage.

Today I experimented with increasing the chimney height to about 8mm and severely cutting the fore and aft sides of the outside to see what the result would be. I was inspired by some of the extreme embouchures used on contrabass and subcontrabass flutes (look up videos of these on YouTube - they are really cool). The results were not good. There is too much enrichment of the overtones which results in an unpleasant buzziness on my flutes - and introduces some annoying heterodyning on the middle D (in D flute terms, i.e., 0XX XXX). This works for some of the jazz players who make their instruments pop and buzz like a string bass in a New York Jazz club. This isn’t the sound we want from our Celtic Flutes however!

I am happy with my Bb design though and am now tweaking it to make it perhaps a bit easier on the hands and develop a smaller handed model. I am now making a 3 piece blackwood Folk Flute version (send me an email if you are interested - web page additions are in progress).

Its this practice of tweaking and experimenting such as what I described above that one arrives at a design - aided by the legacies that Rudall and other makers left behind. Although it is theoretically possible to design a flute in one pitch based on another by doing the “maths”, what results is usually a long shot, unplayable and commonly un-fingerable. I’ve tried, using the complex iterative calculations that Nederveen developed (see http://www.amazon.com/Acoustical-Aspects-Woodwind-Instruments-Revised/dp/0875805779.

Making reamers is an impediment and thus once one has an easy to produce bore profile that works, one is loathe to change it. Still it would be interesting to go to a larger bore generally to see what happens. But my guess is that Rudall and others more or less tried that and zeroed in on what seemed to work best.

What I have noticed in just changing the head joint bore and wall thickness on these alto flutes is that these have less impacts than the shape and size of the embouchure itself. There is only so much energy that one can impart into this system and above a certain size changing the bore size to something larger will do little to increase the punch of the instrument, and will actually make things worse off. Similarly there are limits going the other way. I am able to use my Bb head joint and to a lesser extent the one for A (with a 21mm bore) all the way up to C. The Bb works well for this and by swapping parts one can have a flute in C, B, Bb and A (i.e., my low Combo flutes).

But putting the Bb head joint onto a D body simply doesn’t work. The scaling is all wrong and the octaves play way out of tune. But one can take a headjoint for a D flute with a bore of 18.85-19.05mm and make that work for an Eb. However, it becomes a little narrow in bore for C, at least the ones that I make. My C flutes with the 20.25mm bore in the head joint play like a Pratten. What few attempts to derive a C using my Standard flute bore in the head joint just aren’t as nice.

Its fun working on these - though its becoming somewhat harder on my increasingly arthritic hands. I am investigating some ergonomic workarounds and trying to develop something a little easier to hold and play. I really love the pitch of these. And when one returns to a higher pitched flute in D its always a great thing!

Everyone, keep out of trouble!

Casey

Here is what got mailed off yesterday. These, and another Bb flute with rings and slide mailed off earlier this week, I started on February 3rd. I’ve been busy!

Note the Mopane Bb flute and the Blackwood Bb flute (Folk Flute version) on the left.

Casey

Detail on some of the Boxwood flutes. I love this stuff! Note the left handed flute in blackwood in between a few of the Boxwood flutes.

Casey, is all of that boxwood that came from Octopus?

Loren,

Yes. Boxwood from Octopus. Nice stuff!!!

Casey

Casey, what stopper distance do you find best for your low Bbs? I’ll explain why I’m asking when I have more time…

I use pretty much the same distance as on my D flutes, around 23mm from the face of the stopper to the center of Embouchure.

Casey

That boxwood looks much better than the stuff they sent to us when I was at Von Huene. We basically couldn’t use any of the samples they sent.

Heh heh, contrast that with my first visit, in the mid-eighties. I was actually there to do some research on sound archiving and folk music repositories. I didn’t know if I would have any time to spare, so I made no prior arrangement. When it became clear I had the last half-day free, I slipped down to see if the Curator happened to be in. He was, although he was about to head off for an hour or two. He showed me around the collection, said to help myself, and that if I were to go before he got back, to be sure to close the door behind me!

Needless to say, I was still there when he got back. Must have taken him years to wipe up all that drool.

Just in time for my next visit…

Terry