Looking for feedback form whistle makers or experienced players

[JohnF_Nejedlo]

I’m learning the whistle as an accompaniment instrument to my wife’s hammered dulcimer. What started as curiosity has become one of the great joys of my retirement. Along the way, I’ve lost over 120 pounds, changed how I eat, and found a deeper bond with my wife in the music we now make together at home.

As a retired science teacher, I tend to approach things a bit differently than most people do. I think out loud. I write long form. I try to name mechanisms precisely. Early on, I probably did that here in a way that felt more clinical than conversational. That wasn’t my intention — but I understand how it may have landed.

Someone kindly suggested that the kind of deep dives I enjoy might work better in blog form, with occasional links shared here for feedback rather than building them entirely within forum threads. That was wise advice, and I am grateful for it.

So that’s what I’m doing now.

In five months, I’ll reach my one-year mark on the whistle. I’m preparing to launch a blog aimed specifically at adult beginners who come to the instrument later in life — not to perform on stage or in a session, but simply to make music at home for the joy of it. The two documents below are part of that ongoing effort. They represent my evolving understanding of how this little instrument works.

They are living documents. I’ve already benefited from the insight of several whistle makers and players I deeply respect, and I will continue refining them as I learn more.

If you’re willing to offer constructive criticism — especially where I’ve misunderstood or oversimplified — I would truly appreciate it.

Resistance, Air Speed, & Learning the Low D

Understanding Chiff, Articulation, and Sound Production in the Whistle

Thanks for the grace and for the shared love of this wee instrument.

John Francis Nejedlo

[He-Who-Dares]

Very interesting writing there. You seem to have opened up the can of worms that is never ending with regards to how whistles work and their design. It’s a deep hole you got yourself into and it is an exciting one. I enjoyed your writing.

I see lots of whistle players, especially beginners struggle with hitting the second octave, or even making it perform correctly. Blowing harder is indeed the way to reach the upper register but when I have offered my advice to others I have found it more successful to suggest, not to blow harder, but blow faster. It really does seem to work. I guess it’s a mental thing.

If there is any thing specific you would like to know about the design of these wee instruments and how it all works then please do reach out and I will do my best to contribute to your understanding

[pancelticpiper]

Not a maker, the closest I’ve come is doing modifications to make existing whistles play better.

But “experienced player” yes around 50 years now. However for over half that time my main instrument was Irish flute, and whistles were very much in the background.

Around 20 years ago persistent wrist, hand, shoulder, and neck pain made me give up flute and I switched to Low D Whistle as a replacement. I went on a big whistle-buying-and-trying spree to try to find “the whistle that plays like a flute” or “the perfect whistle”.

I found that both goals were impossible.

Anyhow I read your “resistance” article and for somebody like me it’s pretty obtuse. I’m a musician, not a scientist, and I’ll let others debate the theory stuff. I’m not qualified to comment on any of it.

When I was evaluating dozens of Low D’s I was testing several practical aspects. I rank my priorities more or less like this:

1. tuning. (If an instrument isn’t in tune no other factors matter.)

2. ergonomics. (If an instrument hurts to play no other factors matter.)

3. voicing. It’s a blanket term that for me covers the volume relationships between various notes and the ease or stiffness of production of various notes.

4. air efficiency. I want an efficient instrument so long phrases can be played on a single breath.

5. timbre. Yes it’s in last place.

Not on the list are what materials the thing is made out of or what it looks like.

All of the best-performing Low D’s, the ones I consider serious professional instruments, were aluminium tubing anyway.

BTW I see you have Reyburns! They have a unique tone. Especially interesting is the tone of the Maple-head ones. The sound of those with hammer dulcimer must be beautiful.

[JohnF_Nejedlo]

Richard,

First: you’re absolutely right that my “resistance” write-up can feel obtuse. That’s the occupational hazard of being a retired science teacher who thinks in mechanisms and writes long-form. I’m learning — slowly — that what feels like clarity to me can feel like fog to someone who simply wants to make music. Part of my goal in doing this publicly is to keep learning that lesson with grace.

Second: I want to say something directly — I’ve read an enormous number of your posts and comments over the years, and I consider you one of the most helpful and consistently honest voices on this forum. Your reflections — especially as they evolved over time — were a big reason I reached out to Ronaldo in the first place. I was trying to solve real ergonomic problems for my wife and me, and your candor mattered. So I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to read the article and respond.

Third: I’m going to use your list and perspective to make the articles more relatable — to frame the subject first within the larger picture of tuning, ergonomics, voicing, air efficiency, and timbre before going deeper into the mechanics. What I was trying to do in the resistance piece was explain one slice of why “voicing” and “air efficiency” can feel so different from whistle to whistle. But I didn’t do enough to translate those mechanisms into practical takeaways for players. Your comment helps me see how to improve it. Thank you.

And yes — the Reyburns do have a unique tone. The “Native American flute-like” quality you’ve mentioned is real. Paired with hammered dulcimer at home, that color has been part of the appeal for us. (And the maple head really does something special.) My offer to loan that to you still stands — your forum reflections genuinely helped shape this journey.

Thank you again for your time, and the years of help you’ve given people like me.

— John

[pancelticpiper]

Thanks!!

Oooooh a PURPLE MK…

MK, there’s another one with a unique tone.

So many of the alloy-tube Low D’s sound similar, and as I’ve mentioned however complex their tone is in the low octave tend to be bland in the 2nd octave. Somehow the MK keeps its gravelly tone in the 2nd octave.

As I’ve mentioned in the past, being a Highland piper the concept of “resistance” or “backpressure” in whistles is meaningless to me.

In the Highland pipe community it’s getting fairly common for pipers to know what strength reed they prefer, and for reed makers to sell reeds thus labelled.

An “easy” reed would be around 22-26 inH2O ranging up to a “hard” reed around 35-40 inH2O. It’s said that the average for pipers is around 28-32 inH2O.

Here’s a reed maker adjusting reed strengths to match a customer’s order

Bagpipes. In The Barn. Episode 46 - From hard to soft

Has anyone done on Low D Whistles? Bernard Overton was said to have made some extremely hard-blowing Low D’s aimed at pipers. I wonder at what pressure they would blow.

[paddler]

My comment here is not so much criticism of what you have written in the articles, but rather a suggestion of a couple of other dimensions that you might want to add to the elements you’re looking at. One is bore profile, and the other is tone hole lattice. Both of these have a significant impact on the tuning and voicing of a whistle.

Regarding bore profiles, there is a basic division between cylindrical and conical bores, and then within each there are issues having to do with aspect ratio, degree of taper, and irregularities in the bore. They all have strong influences, but the irregularities in the bore are where a lot of the unstudied magic lies.

In cylindrical bore whistles, the good ones tend to have constrictions of various kinds in the very top part up near the window. These affect the octave stretch, and influence the tuning in a profound way.

In terms of tone hole lattice, both the tone hole size and the chimney height of the tone hole makes a difference to tuning, voicing and ergonomics. The material a whistle is made from has a strong influence on the chimney height. The reason brass, aluminum and wooden whistles tend to sound different to each other is largely due to the influence of the chimney height. A brass whistle would be too heavy with a high chimney height, and a wooden whistle would be too fragile with a low chimney height, etc.

And while I agree with virtually everything pancelticpiper wrote, I will point out that the late Michael Grinter’s low whistles provide at least one data point of evidence that a wooden low whistle can be a serious professional instrument, in addition to all the aluminum ones like Goldies etc.

Here is a clip of Callum Stewart playing a wooden Grinter low D:

Callum Stewart – Grinter low D

Here is Kevin Crawford playing a wooden Grinter low F:

Kevin Crawford – Grinter low F

And here is another of Kevin Crawford shredding of a wooden Grinter Bb:

Kevin Crawford – Grinter Bb

I have a Grinter low F and a Goldie low F, and I would say they are comparable in terms of being professional quality musical instruments, albeit with a subtly different voice and playing characteristics.

[Cyberknight]

I’m not a maker, but I love these articles! I’ve learned so much from reading them. I never knew, for example, that “bevel angle” had an affect on pitch stability. I assume the “bevel” we’re referring to here is the ramp at the nearer side of the window, correct? If so, now that I think of it, that comports exactly with my own experience. All of my whistles with 45-degree ramps seem more pitch-stable than my whistles with 90-degree ramps.

Fascinating stuff!

[pancelticpiper]

You’re correct about the bores, I do measure the bore and “sounding length” of every whistle that goes through my hands. I do the maths to come up with a ratio, and these have been plotted on a chart. It’s clear to me that once a bore gets too wide for a given length the 2nd octave gets recalcitrant and stiff. These measurements are oddly fascinating to me.

My evaluations, on the other hand, are based on playing characteristics alone.

[JohnF_Nejedlo]

Thank you for this response. I appreciate you expanding the framework.

I’ll actually be in Oregon at the end of the month — flying into Portland, visiting Rob Gándara in Corvallis to pick up some Carbony whistles after custom work, and then driving down to Ashland to spend a few days with Ronaldo Reyburn. One of my goals for that visit is exactly what you’re pointing to: sitting down over coffee to talk more deeply about bore shaping, constrictions, and how those decisions influence sound and tone.

I see you’re a wooden flute maker in Oregon. If you’re open to it, I might occasionally lean on your expertise with questions as I try to better understand these geometric dimensions. My wife has been a long-time piano and concert flute player, and at some point, we’ll probably commission a 6-keyed Irish flute designed with small-hand ergonomics in mind. This journey into whistle acoustics has been eye-opening for both of us.

Before his passing, I had been corresponding with Gary Humphrey Jr. on several of these topics while writing these articles. He was generous with his time and insights. That experience reinforced for me how important it is to sit down in person with makers while we still can. Ronaldo is in his 80s, still splitting his own wood and dancing — but I don’t want to miss the chance to listen carefully and document what he knows.

Your comments about the bore profile and tone hole lattice intrigued me. Ronaldo has spoken about the constrictions Bernard Overton created, giving his whistles a squared dimension that influenced everything.

Ronaldo also described building up lacquer layers at specific points inside the upper bore to create subtle internal constrictions, and in some cases, inserting rings to reduce the air column diameter at targeted locations. The attached image shows one such modification: a restriction Ronaldo added to a pair of our Just Intonation Low D whistles. These were among the last whistles he completed before retiring his whistle tools and returning to wooden flute making. He explained that he had incorporated some of the more recent insights he had gained over the past few years and applied them to his own personal Low D designs. Our Low Ds were crafted similarly to his, with an eye on my wanting to play in the upper octave more easily.

Those adjustments to bore geometry are exactly the kinds of ideas I want to understand better, both mechanically and musically.

If you have literature recommendations on bore profile, impedance shaping, or tone hole lattice design — particularly as they relate to cylindrical versus conical flutes and whistles — I would be grateful.

For context, here is my article about Ronaldo’s work, where he describes aspects of his approach in more detail:

Reyburn Tribute Article.pdf

Thank you again for your time and for the generosity of your response.

— John

[trill]

JohnF,

I dabbled in whistle making for a bit.

One term I learned along the way was “bore perubations”. It refers to any departure from a simple cylinder. All of my favorite low-Ds have them.

Here is a book I used which describes them: “Air Columns and Toneholes”

Air Columns and Toneholes: Principles for Wind Instrument Design Book by Bark...

My biggest takeaway from making is just how sensitive the mouthpiece geometry is. One stroke of the file can ruin the voice. Touchy, touchy, touchy . . .

[trill]

@Cyberknight

. . . that “bevel angle” had an affect on pitch stability. . .

Oh, yes. All my favorite LowDs have bevels, including some rather “novel” bevels .

Terminology tidbit: I believe the term for the bevel location would be “windway exit floor”. To my observation, “ramp” refers to the blade downstream of the windway exit.

[paddler]

I’ll try to dig up some references when I have a bit more time, but the basic concepts you’ll want to get to grips with are the following:

Resonances in open ended tubes, standing waves and the relationship between their wave length and the sounding length of such tubes, end-effects that effectively add a bit to the tube length, and how this is frequency dependent.

Then you’ll want to know about Rayleigh’s Rules which explain how bore shape modifications influence pitch. Learn about the difference between displacement vs pressure nodes and antinodes in sound waves, and how adding constrictions to or widening the bore at each of these locations affects the resonant frequency of the bore’s standing waves.

You’ll also want to learn about the role of acoustic impedance and how bore size, tone hole size and chimney depth relate to it.

[JohnF_Nejedlo]

Thank you — between this recommendation and Jonathan Walpole’s suggestions, I now have my coffee-time reading material lined up.

I truly appreciate both of you pointing me toward these resources. I suspect they’ll not only help refine this document but also guide future articles that explore these ideas more clearly for me and for other adult learners who are curious about the deeper mechanics of the instrument.

Grateful for the direction.

— John

[paddler]

@JohnF_Nejedlo

I see you’re a wooden flute maker in Oregon. If you’re open to it, I might occasionally lean on your expertise with questions as I try to better understand these geometric dimensions.

Oh, and I meant to say earlier that I’m happy to respond to questions and even host a visit if the schedule works out. The timing of your next trip to Oregon isn’t ideal though. For one, I’m just about as far from Ashland as you can get in Oregon (I’m in Hood River), and I’m just about to leave for Baja for 3 weeks. I’m doing a 14 day sea kayaking expedition in the Sea of Cortez, so won’t be back until early March.

[JohnF_Nejedlo]

Thank you! Enjoy your trip. You clearly are very active and adventurous. I am sure I will have questions for you as I read these documents and start integrating the information into what I am doing. I am about have a cup of tea and look over what you sent me.