I’m looking to buy a good MP3 player that has good recording qualities. I want to record my local session for personal playback/practice.
So far, I think these might be good: http://www.pogoproducts.com
But, it seems that all reviews are focused on playback, not recording.
Any suggestions?
Question: why an MP3 recorder? Why not Minidisk? I’m lookng at the new Sharp MiniDisk recorder, with an Otterbox case and omnidireactioanl mics built in from the SoundProfessionals. I’ve heard live recoring and sortying of recordings at sessoisn is easier with MiniDisk than with MP3.
DAZED
Minidisc would also work. I think its easy to go back and forth in formats. I’ll look at the Sharp product.
DAZED - Do you know the model number on the MiniDisc recorder that you speak of?
I have a Ripflash, very good if you use a preamplified external mike. The internal mike tends to easily overload and distort in a live music situation. The latest version, the Ripflash trio will accept standard non-amplified mikes as well.
Last year, I brought the Ripflash to the Swannanoa Gathering to record classes, the results were very good, but again, you absolutely have to use an external preamplified mike, which adds about $100 to the cost of the system.
If you don’t need immediately USB upload to your PC of the files (that’s why I bought a Ripflash, didn’t want to have to spend days transcribing recordings), then Minidisc is the perfect alternative.
Cheers,
Michael
Take a look at the Creative Labs (Sound Blaster) Juke Box. They have the highest storage of any of the mp3 recorders that I can think of. It has the added benefit of being easy to connect to the computer (minidisks are not).
There are also some digital handheld digital mixing/recorders that may serve your purpose… Tascam makes one and there are several others.
Erik
I see two massive advantages to MP3 recorders:
Once a recording is made, I’d like to get the music to my computer in MP3 format. Doing so from a MP3 recorder is trivial. Doing so from a minidisc requires a format change from one compression scheme to another, as well as either some sort of digital audio pipeline into your computer or a digital to analog to digital again conversion.
Ability to record 60+ hours of music without switching discs. (I’m assuming a harddisc MP3 recorder here, as those are the only ones I know of with minidisc-quality recording capabilities.)
OT question re minidiscs
TonyHiggins
Posted: 2002-11-18 18:50
search for this thread it has covered most of your questions.
About Minidisc, should that be the direction you choose:
Do not buy a Sony.
Buy a Sharp.
Why? There are two very, very important reasons.
Because the motor noise on the Sonys is much louder than on the Sharps and is picked up very clearly by most microphones, especially if the mic is plugged right into the unit without a cable to distance it from the machine. I have the Sony MZ-909 unit, the highest end unit that could be bought before NetMD was released. Even with a microphone several feet away you can hear the whir and buzz of the motor, which is extremely obnoxious. Don’t even try to plug a mic right into the side of the thing. For several years this fact deterred me from recording the amazing sessions I was going to on a nightly basis (Tommy Peoples, Peter Molloy, Kathleen Coneely, etc).
Sharp recorders, on the other hand are very, very quiet and a mic plugged right into the side of the unit will pick up almost no noise at all. Frustrated with the unusable Sony, I just got a wonderful new Sharp MD-DR7 and guess what? No motor noise at all! It’s amazing. I plug a tiny little mic right into the side of it and I’m good to go.
Recording volume control.
Sony units only let you use “automatic gain control” (or some similar name), which means that the recorder is supposed to automatically set the recording level to it’s optimum setting, avoid clipping, etc. Unfortunately, this almost never works very well. In a session I ALWAYS get clipping, which is extremely obnoxious and has ruined many recordings.
Thankfully, the Sharp units have a manual recording volume feature, which lets you watch the meter and set it to the optimum position. This works much, much better for sessions and other high volume situations. My new recorder, the Sharp MD-DR7 from Minidisco.com works wonders when recording sessions and I recommend it highly.
Best,
Chris
Also, make sure you do your homework before buying an mp3 recorder. Mp3 recorders have a lot of future promise, but the majority, if not all of the current crop are half-baked, so to speak. Believe me, I want a good mp3 recorder just as much if not more than you do. The idea of recording thousands of hours onto something the size of a deck of cards seems like heaven to me.
To do your research I recommend the following:
The D-Music MP3 gear forum: http://www.dmusic.com/forum/gearup/
The MP3.com hardware forum:
http://msg.mp3.com/hardware/listnews/?cp=hw_main
Beware of the MP3.com editorial reviews - they give everything a good review. Don’t buy anything until you’ve read at least a couple good reviews of the product, preferably from people on a forum rather than a paid reviewer. Also, make sure the mp3 recorder does EXACTLY what you want it to do, without the addition of other expensive and cumbersome doohickies. Creative Labs, for instance, just came out with a wired remote for their Nomad Jukebox, allowing direct to mp3 voice and music recording through the mic that is built into the remote… unfortunately it sucks big time: http://gear.ign.com/articles/383/383460p1.html
A lot of companies are going to be releasing hard-drive based mp3 players and recorders in the next month to six months, so if you don’t mind waiting a bit you really might as well do so.
Also, if you’re looking at minidisc, do keep in mind that minidisc recorders, even the new NetMD recorders, are extremely crippled in that you can not digitally transfer anything that you’ve recorded onto disc back onto computer, DAT, or anyother storage medium. The only way you can transfer your music to PC to burn it to CD (or whatever you plan to do with it) is through an analog cable, which is slow and results in loss of sound quality. I love my minidisc, but it has a long way to go and much to be desired (damn Sony and RIAA!!)
For a good article about why, after all this time, we still can’t record a live concert or session with our minidisc recorder and then digitally transfer it to our PC, check out this very interesting WIRED article: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/sony.html
This article sheds a lot of light on why we don’t already have a plethora of hard-disk based mp3 players and why so few of them have a recording function, and why, worse yet, those recording functions are severely crippled, useful for low quality voice recording only.
I hope that helps you out.
Best,
Chris
[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2003-01-28 15:49 ]
Hi Chris,
I beg to differ with you, the combination of a RipFlash with a quality preamplfied stereo mike, such as those from Sound Professionals, gives me excellent results at relatively high bit MP3 bitrates (192 kbit).
With a full 256 Megabytes of memory installed (128 MB internal + 128 MB SmartMedia), I can record 3 to 4 hours of very high quality music and then dump it directly to the PC on USB.
On my last Swannanoa gathering trip, I also brought an MD recorder, but didn’t need it, the Ripflash more than met my requirements for recording the classes.
Now, certainly the quality isn’t as good as full bitrate MD, but for what I’m doing, capturing trad music classes and sessions, its more than good enough.
There are USB enabled MD recorders, just not from Sony, for example, this rather pricey one from HHB:
http://www.minidisco.com/minispecs/hhbmdp500-rkit-port.html
I hope some day Sony changes their evil ways… 
Michael
Michael -
Good input, but you miss two of my main points:
With the Ripflash you also need the additional quality preamplfied stereo mike - which as I said can be both expensive and cumbersome. I’m glad to hear that the quality is good, but I think most of us would prefer a little mp3 recorder that one could plug a tiny little mic into and record away.
As for minidisc recorders with USB - yes, I know that one can put a CD in your computer and have it quickly send a digital copy to your minidisc recorder via USB, but that’s as far as it goes. With all but the most expensive recorders, like the one you linked to, they WON’T let you record something live and then upload it to your computer via USB, which, in my opinion, makes the USB feature practically useless for musicians or anyone who intends to use it for live recording purposes.
Best,
Chris
[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2003-01-28 16:24 ]
Hi Chris,
The HBB unit thankfully does allow upload the field recorded files to the PC via USB, sells for around $1000 - $1500.
The mass market consumer companies like Sony have not enabled this ability. Why? Who knows?
Michael
[ This Message was edited by: eskin on 2003-01-28 16:32 ]
By the way, I also use Soundprofessionals mics and have been since I got my first minidisc recorder in 97. They are very, very good for portable applications and the staff there is great.
I buy most of my minidisc gear from http://www.minidisco.com , though it is often a bit more expensive than the rest. I’m willing to pay a bit more because I know they are reliable (my family - almost all of us musicians, have bought 5 minidisc recorders from them over the years).
For more minidisc info, check out http://www.minidisc.org .
And just in case you are wondering, I would switch to a hard drive based mp3 recorder in a flash if I thought there was a good option available. I have a love/hate relationship with minidisc.
Chris
Michael - The WIRED article I linked to explains exactly why Sony has yet to implement that feature on their recorders… makes me mad!!
Chris
On the subject of hard disc MP3 recorders, for a long time I’ve had an Archos MP3 recorder (6 GB), also, but haven’t really put it through its paces. Seems a bit noisy, but I don’t know if the files are noisy or if the output from the Archos is particularly noisy (backlight seems to inject a hum).
Michael
I’m waiting for the Neuros:
might actually do the job, but we’ll see. At least the developers there seem interested in providing basic features like level controls…
Michael
Nice… that looks pretty good. I bought the Nomad Jukebox 3 when it came out, but brought it back immediately after I opened the package, read the manual and realized it wouldn’t let me record from an unpowered mic.
I’ve thought about buying the Archos, but reviews have been sort of iffy.
I would be so psyched if some company just got it right… how hard can it be?
Chris
Awesome! Open source architecture = excellent!!!
I’ll also throw my support for the Archos Jukebox Recorder:
http://www.archos.com/lang=en//products/prw_500277.html
The latest model has 20 gigabytes of storage, can be hooked to your computer through USB 2.0 and act as a second hard drive, can store anything besides storing mp3s, great community support (theres even an open source o/s for the thing that provides increased functionality), all in about the size of a small tape walkman.
The really nice thing is that if you are into things like voiding your warranty you can put a larger hard drive in it, 40 gigs for instance. All it takes is standard 2.5" laptop harddrives.
Nick