ooooooooops that was a bit like repeating a set in the session, told youse I was new to the whole thing. Sorry about that.
Hi, Maire. You should try the Flute Players of Roscommon CD. Another suggestion would be the Wooden Flute Obsession Vol. 1 and Vol. 2.
If you want a tune book try Vincent Broderick’s “Turoe Stone”. Click on the blue text for the links.
Cheers,
Aaron
Hear him, hear him.
It’s worth highlighting this, esp. for beginners. The notation for the ornamentation helps reinforce the percussive aspect of the ornamentation, and frees it from the baggage of baroque tradition, which is, in my mind, particularly ill-suited for these kinds of gestures which have more to do with rhythm and much less to do with pitch. It may not be as intuitively simple as the usual way of writing ornamentation, but it presents it more accurately–a service in the long run for those who take the time.
Had I a resource like Grey’s book (which from a fluter’s perspective is a “desert island” -class of book) when I started Irtrad I would have saved a lot of time spent in re-learning ornamentation.
Grey has indeed thought deeply about the problems inherent in representing an oral tradition in print…and surmounted many of them, thus making the knowledge available to those who aren’t able to spend time with a teacher.
I asked Grey about this last year at Lark Camp. He felt strongly that the notation should emphasize the rhythmic nature of ornaments. I see his point, especially for those who come from a classical point of view, using grace notes gives entirely the wrong idea. But he did agree for those who were experienced players, especially when precisely notating which finger is used for cuts (or even two-finger strikes), grace note notation is reasonable. One issue is that Grey almost exclusively uses the same finger to cut with: the finger two above the note being played (or one above in the case of B, of course). So there’s no need for him to differentiate between different fingers used in cuts or rolls.
Also he believes that crans should go like this:
on low D
xxxxxx
xxxxox
xxxoxx
xxxxox
xxxxxx
And so on for higher notes.
The 'o’s signify cuts.
I’ve learned this and find it quite helpful.
note that it transfers nicely to the second
octave.
check this fingering too:
xxx xxx
xxx xox
xxx oxx
x(g sharp key)
xxx xxx
I mean the first two cuts like Grey Larsen does,the last one w the g sharp
key.sounds great on my flute on both octaves, especially in jigs.
The vented second octave D crann is lovely sometimes.
oxx xxx
oxx xox
oxx oxx
oxx xox
oxx xxx
for example.
Larsen’s notation is actually a bit more detailed than the standard Baroque notation. If you find a good, faithful score for a Baroque flute piece, all you’ll see is a bunch of + signs indicating ornaments. The plus sign just means “ornament this note,” most of the composers just left it up to the players what ornaments to put in. Some of the less faithful reproductions will put in suggested ornaments, those even less faithful than that will simply put in the trills, grace notes, etc.
Check out Bill Ochs’ article on notation and Grey’s method in the June 2004 C&F Newsletter. Though I appreciate what Grey is attempting with his method, I was persuaded by Bill Ochs’ article.
Cheers,
Aaron
… and while you’re at it, if you haven’t checked out Bill Och’s Irish Tinwhistle Tutor (I’m pretty sure that’s the title), you might want to … I found it quite helpful some years ago (not to mention pretty funny).
Thanks for that link Aaron – I for one didn’t even know C&F had a newsletter. I read the article, and, having just ordered Larsen’s book (it should arrive tomorrow), I will definitely read it (as I do everything) with the proverbial grain of salt. Still, I have lots I need to learn, and if Larsen can get me at least halfway there, that’s much more than I can do on my own.
Well I hate to be a dissenting opinion but I think you should listen to Grey’s playing before you buy the book and learn from it. You might find that you love his playing or you might find that his playing is… well you know… and decide you don’t want to learn from him or learn his take on Irish music.
Personally, I won’t say my opinion of Grey Larsen’s playing 
I’m not a huge fan of Grey’s playing myself (altough I like it better than many other pro’s out there), but have you read the book yourself Murphy? Even if Grey goes in depth on almost everything, I haven’t ever got the feeling that he uses lots of his own ornamentation techniques that goes outside the tradition. All ornaments covered are those that almost all pro players I’ve heard frequently use. I think everything is kept very traditional, I think this was taken into concern by Grey himself when he wrote it. It’s not just the ornamentation, but everything. He often refer to other players as well, such as Mr. Molloy for example, and their style of playing. I think he tries to keep a very neutral aproach to everything, and I think he does it very well.
Yeah, but Jack doesn’t like Mr. Molloy either.
No, I haven’t read the book and I’m not about to either. Your ear and a few good pointers will do you more good than reading a gianormous book that was written by somebody who may or may not know what he’s doing.
I haven’t listened enough to Grey’s playing to form much of an opinion yet.
However, I think that I can learn a great deal from a good teacher regardless of whether I like their style as a performer. That seems pretty independent to me.
My take on Grey’s book is that it attempts to more clearly document and explain existing ornamentation techniques rather than presenting any new techniques. As someone who was new to both the music and the whistle/flute, I find it a good resource.
Yes, but there is more than one way to roll, and breath and there are countless different rthyhms and grooves. Your ear can tell you the differences between them and a book cannot.
When it comes to matters of this nature, I think the old adage of “Take what you like and leave the rest” applies very well: i.e., there’s some value in most everything, including this massive tome, but rarely is anything totally valuable to everyone.
(Excepting maybe Sturob’s new Olwell 
)
I would normaly not respect anyone expressing an opinion without having any ground to stand on, you have not read the book so you can’t really critisize it, but you seem to make a few good points. Agreed, one need not know the science behind a car to drive it well, but it never hurts. I would say I’m a better player now than I was a year ago, and the book has been a great help, it’s a great resource. I also listen extensively to other players, and I’m always grateful for pointers from experienced players. I believe that Grey does not grab anything from thin air, he definetely knows what he’s doing. I don’t really know who you are, but my guess would be that Grey has a helluvalot more knowledge about this music than you do, a knowledge he’s gained from oral tradition and years of research. This book have things to teach all players, no matter what their skill level is.
Yes, quite right. I find the CD’s giving many examples of different ornaments that come with the book to be even more helpful than the book itself. 8 pages describing a crann are not as good as one sound clip. I look at it as the book illuminates the CDs, not the other way around, and as a beginner I find the set is very helpful (although I don’t use it much).