LANCE ARMSTRONG

Poststructural Pub
21

The reason tennis and golf analogies don’t hold up is because they are not strength and endurance events: Tennis players and golfers don’t significantly tear down their bodies from one event to the next, nor is maximum physical conditioning king when it comes to winning a title, rather technique rules the day in those sports.

I give Indurain his due, along with all the rest, however once can’t say “Indurain could have…” who knows, the bottom line is, he did what he did, and nothing more or less. Lance’s carrer is not over yet (as far as we know) and this year he looks stronger than ever.

I can certainly understand how many people are not yet ready to consider him the best of all time, if such a thing can even be said of any racer, but as a former professional athlete myself, I look at certain metrics and compare Lance to other cyclists:

Has any other althlete in cycling ever trained harder, more meticulously, or more consistently? No.

Has any other athlete in cycling ever been better conditioned (hard training in and of itself doesn’t necessarily bring about that result)? No.

Has any other athlete in cycling over come more physical adversity (cancer in Lance’s case) and still risen so high? No.

Has any other atlhete won the most competitive strength and endurance race in cycling more times? No.

Has any other athlete in cycling been stronger and faster in more aspects of racing (time trials, climbing, etc.) than Lance? No.

Has any racer in history been tougher mentally? Hard to measure, but if you ignore all the grimacing and discount suffering due to poor training…I believe you’d be hard pressed to come to an answer other than, No.

If one were to eliminate the team aspect (strictly theoretical here, but we can make an educated guess), is there any other cyclist in history that could likely beat Lance one on one over the course of the tour (see all the points above if in doubt), I am fairly certain the answer is, No.

Sure, as an American, I’m proud of Lance, but I judge his performace as a fellow athlete - you’re not gonna hear me rally on about how great Mary Decker was, or Jim Ryan, or Steve Prefontain were, the fact is a Moroccan was the best middle distance runner in history, so my comments are little influenced by Lance’s nationality.

Going back to analogies: Mark Spitz or…?

Loren

22

Loren, you made some excellent points. I continue to concede the point that Armstrong would beat the oldtimers head to head in their primes, just as I believe that the top young swimmers today would wax Mark Spitz in his prime. The new generation is faster, stronger, better prepared. What I will do is present the resumes and let the readers decide for themselves. Most Chiff readers have a good idea of Armstrong’s accomplishments, especially the cancer recovery, but like Bloomfield said, most probably can’t spell Eddy Merckx.

Looking at the two resumes, the most glaring difference is that Armstrong never seriously tried to win the Giro, the second biggest prize in cycling, and Merckx won it five times. Early in Armstrong’s career he was competitive in the classics, but at this point Lance is rarely a top contender in these races, even though several of them are late in the season and would not jeapordize his Tour training. The other thing to consider is that athletes age much better these days and that can account for greater longevity at top form.

Lance Armstrong Palmares
cancer survivor
6 times Tour de France winner (counting 2004)
20 stage wins in the Tour de France (counting four for 2004) including many of the most prestigious mountain stages
Midi Libre,
Dauphine Libere,
Tour of Switzerland,
GP Eddy Merckx,
GP des Nations,
Fleche Wallone,
Classica San Sebastian,
World Road Championship.

Eddy Merckx Palmares from
http://www.kings5.freeserve.co.uk/merckxpalmares.htm

5 times Tour de France winner (1969-72, 1974) and 35 stage wins. Wore yellow jersey for a record 96 days.
5 times Giro d’Italia winner (1968, 1970, 1972-74) and 25 stage wins.
Vuelta a Espana winner (1973)
World Champion (1967,1971,1974)
Hour record (49.431 km, 1972-84)
3 times Paris-Nice winner (1969-71)
Tour of Switzerland (1974)
7 times Milan-San Remo winner (1966-67, 1969, 1971-72, 1975-76)
Tour of Flanders (1969,1975)
Paris-Roubaix (1968, 1970, 1973)
Liege-Bastogne-Liege (1969, 1971-73, 1975)
Amstel Gold Race (1973,1975)
Tour of Lombardy (1971-72)
Het Volk (1971,1973)
Ghent-Wevelgem (1967, 1969-70, 1973)
Fleche-Wallonne (1967, 1970, 1972, 1975)
Paris-Brussels (1973)
Henninger Turm (1971)
Grand Prix des Nations (1973)

  • a footnote for those not familiar with cycling, the World Championship is a single separate race held once a year.
23

Quoi, tu penses qu’il est le seul? Daß alles in Texas können nur ein Sprach sprechen? ¿Cuántas idiomas hablas tu? Yksi . . . kaksi . . . kolme?


:wink:

Stuart

24

Hey Stuart,

I think your fingers slipped on the keyboard and you were typing off one row… :stuck_out_tongue:

Eric

25

I’m at that point with Lance Armstrong that I arrived at with Michael Jordan and now Ken Jennings (the ongoing-ongoing-ongoing winner on Jeopardy): B-O-R-I-N-G

Just don’t care any more and look forward to the day (now past with MJ) that they lose (or finally retire) and life can go on with some interesting competitions instead of the deification of some of these people and the already-a-given feel it all has to it now.

Susan

26

You forgot to mention Michael Schumacher, another lamer :stuck_out_tongue:

27

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Loren

28

Bill,

I must confess that I have been playing Devil’s Advocate a bit here, and I do agree with you that Lance hasn’t focused on anything other than the TdF, which will certainly weaken his standing in history, and I think it’s a bit of a shame, because having him competing in more races would be much more exciting.

OTH, the sport has changed so much that I doubt we’ll ever see cycling be as competitive, over as many different races, as it used to be back in the day, which is indeed sad. I think it’s also fair to say that Cycling drew from a much smaller pool of talent back in Eddie’s day, and it’s easier to be the biggest fish in a medium sized pond, than it is to be the biggest fish in the Ocean, if you see where I’m headed…

However, we’ve probably beaten this horse to death, so how about this question:

What’s tougher (competition wise), physically, technically, and mentally: Road Cycling or Mountain Biking?

Having had my taste of both (although not as a competitor), I’d have to vote MTB.

Loren

29

Every country has its share of sports a-holes. Look at the death threats Henry Aaron got when he was nearing the record, or the boorish behavior of some British soccer fans. Sure, it’s possible that some French or other European “fans” might be stupid, but those areen’t racing fans - just idiots.

One thing I’ve seen repeatedly during the coverage is masses of fans at the ends of each stage cheering wildly as Armstrong comes in. They can’t ALL be American tourists. Also, Phil Liggett, the main race commentator, has frequently remarked that Armstrong seems to be hated by the Frence press, but that he’s seen no evidence of it from the French fans, with whom, according to Liggett at least, Lance is very popular.

Perception is everything, I suppose, but I long since quit believeing everything I read in gossip rags.

30

Hmm, just curius - did you feel the same way about, Martina Navratolova, Monica Seles, or Mia Hamm?

Loren

31

The media wasn’t so filled (or over-filled) with them, at least not that I particularly noticed. Yesterday the home page for MSN had an article entitled “Dress Like Lance - Where to Get the …” (whatever it is you wear as a cyclist). Blech.

I am, however, at that point with Tiger Woods. It isn’t quite so bad now that he’s losing frequently, but did you ever notice how no matter who was leading a tournament, the picture to go with the story would be of TW and the headline would read something like, “Woods in 4th place” or “Woods birdies 18th hole” with absolutely no mention of who was actually leading.

Trying to think of a female athlete who’s had the pedestal placement and idolization, with the accompanying media madness, to the same degree as these male athletes - can’t think of one right off the top of my head.

Susan

32

Either Williams sister

33

YES!

34

I thought about entiring the “Live Like Lance” contest but didn’t relish the idea of parting with a testicle. :astonished:

Mike

p.s. I’m also a cyclist and would follow the Tour whether Lance was in it or not.

35

Michelle Wie is getting there…