My teacher told me to stop tonguing so much, and it’s working with most of the tunes I’m working on right now (Road to Lisdoonvarna, Swallowtail Jig, Off she Goes, Rights of Man, Rakes of Mallow)…except Kesh Jig. I just can’t get the A part without tonguing a lot. Have any of you played a song that simply doesn’t take well to legato/slurring? I can resist tonguing on the others, so I’m guessing with Kesh it’s just written in such a way that you HAVE to tongue..?
Nah, I don’t have any problems playing Kesh without tonguing. (Though usually I would tongue at a couple of spots, I think.)
My best guess is you are having issues because you’re not that fluent with your ornaments yet. Can you be more specific about where you feel you need to tongue?
I wish I could explain it better, but I’ve only been playing for a few months, and barely understand the instrument. With other songs, phrases seem to make themselves known, and it just seems natural to slur the whole phrase, then tongue to switch to the next phrase, but I just can’t seem to feel the phrases with the A part of Kesh Jig.
I guess I’m asking a question to which there is no answer other than just to shut up and keep playing and eventually the truth will be made clear.
For this kind of question, you should let us know what instrument it applies to… Assuming it’s whistle, check out the tonguing page in Brother Steve’s thinwhistle pages (when you get to the end of the page, take the link that takes you to the jigs page, for more fun things to do with your tongue). If you’re talking about mandolin, i would strongly recommend avoiding tonguing, especially on the E string. On flute, tonguing is considered a Bad Thing, until you get to Advanced Wizard level.
I just got used to never tounging ever.
Are you tonguing more because of the repeated Gs in the first bar and As in the second (on both lines)? Plus, you would be tonguing the edd gdd bar for the repeated Ds. I am no expert on ITM, but I put in cuts or taps for the repeated Gs and As instead of tounging them. I tongue the very start of the tune and after the breath I take after the dotted quarter G in the second line. Then, I tongue the second d in each of the groups in the third bars. That’s it. Someone please correct me if I’m “wrong” in doing that.
Yeah, when I play the Kesh, when you don’t tounge some of the song it makes it a bit fluent and some tounging gives it some dynamic to it. 
Maybe this is one of those cases where an ornament (a simple one, like a cut or tap) might be preferable to tonguing. You’re using the tongue to break the notes apart and a cut or tap would do the same.
Isn’t this how rolls might have evolved? I’ve run across versions of a tune where in one spot it’s a roll, and in the same spot in another version, it’s a triplet, which really can’t be slurred and still sound like three notes.
M
I do a roll on the first three repeated notes then a cut to the last one. Although the Kesh Jig is often taught as a beginner tune, those rolls make it a little hard. If you choose to tongue all four notes then it’s a fine beginner tune.
Gack. If you’re not going to roll the G on the first beat of the first measure, then play it as GAG. Then you can tongue (or better yet, cut) into the G that starts the second beat.
Unless you’re amazingly good at it, tonguing G four times in a row is going to sound atrociously bad and totally un-Irish.
Good point, but I’d do G-F-G rather than go up to the A. I’m certain I’ve seen it like that a few places.
You’re quite right, that was a complete brain fart on my part. G-F#-G, yes. That’s how I played it to check; it just came out wrong when I wrote it down.
(Though I would play it GAG if I were playing it on a G whistle, I suppose…)
Very good information. Thank you. Unfortunately, I’ve only had one lesson and don’t know anything about ornamentation besides what I’ve picked up through experimentation (don’t know if it’s right).
On the up side, however, I’m getting much better with Road to Lisdoonvarna. I’m almost up to full speed.
Well, it certainly sounds like you’re doing much better at this than I am. I’ve been at it (whistle) for a year now and I still can’t play worth a dang – despite the fact that I’m trying like a son-of-a-gun. My excuse has always been that I have no teacher (only the books and the websites and listening to CDs, which do help some), and that I have absolutely NO musical background to rely upon. I can say this with certainty, though, don’t sacrifice the rhythm for speed. Without a solid foundation (rhythm) the tune will fall flat on it’s face. (Well, everyone, it seems something must have sunk into this old noggin, huh?)
Anyway, Jeff, keep at it – I know I will.
Will O’Ban
Talk about brain farts. it’s F# and not F.
And for the original poster, wait awhile on the ornamentation if you haven 't learned it. Go with the GF#G thing instead of the tongueing. It’s more traditional.
Well bear in mind that I’ve been a musician now for six years, so I had a nice leg up when I picked up the whistle. You should have seen me those first few years. Man, talk about slow progress!
Yes, I hear you about not sacrificing rhythm.
I think that’s arguable. If you look at the usual setting of the Kesh you’ll see it’s really a pentatonic tune and to my ear it sounds a good deal more traditional if you don’t play any F#s at all!
To do that I’d finish each part with three Gs, which you could separate using the device of your choice. If I wanted to avoid starting the tune with either a roll or four Gs in a row, I’d play GDG G, or GAG G.
Actually repeated tonguing can sound just fine in a jig - IF you can bring the jig rhythm out by varying the note lengths or attack and not just playing, in the above example, four even strongly tongued Gs.
Having said that I’d agree with FJS to the extent that unless you’re a more experienced player and are very familiar with the jig rhythm, you’re probably less likely to sound “untraditional” if you avoid repeated tonguing here.
That said, a few years ago i was listening to concertinaplayer Yvonne Griffin playing The rambling boys of Tandragee. When changing into the next tune, AN Buachaill Dreoite she looked at me smiled and led into that with a G and started the tune on three equal length Gs. A mind expanding moment.
I wouldn’t tongue in the A section at all except occasionally for variation. I’d usually start with a G roll then an A roll on whistle. On concertina I’d start G-A-G or I’d play three Gs separated by funny bellows work—it’s easier to demonstrate than explain.
On fiddle, G-A-G always seemed to make more sense to me than G-F(# or natural)-G if you aren’t doing an ornament there. It seems to help drive the tune upward.
Seems like all this might just muddy the water for a beginner trying to figure out what to play instead of tonguing. Perhaps the strongest piece of information coming through is that sometimes there’s no clearcut answer and that even good players will disagree.
–Jen.