Julia Delaney and the Blasted Fiddles

Whistle
1

As I am sure everyone here realizes, I am of the open, friendly, chummy sort. Wouldn’t think to argue or disagree or create any kind of unpleasantness. It’s live and let live for me, and let’s all have a drink. In fact, I think I surely have the milk of human kindness by the quart in every vein…

But… let a fiddler in your life, and your serenity is through. Or, more precisely, your Dorian mode is all spoiled.

Playing, as I am between sessions, for contra-dances (the local sort of entertainment for all who are too pot-bellied to be admitted to hipper things on a Saturday night), I was given sheet music for the lovely tune Julia Delaney. An old favorite, of course, and a welcome opportunity to bring out the C-whistle at that.

The version they wanted me to play was absolutely polluted by C-sharps, postivily crawling with them. Not only at the end of each 4-bar phrase did they put … Add^c defe… or … Add^c d4…, but even in the middle of the A-part, these C-sharps could be found:

M:C|
L:1/8
K:Dmin
dcAG F2DF |E2CE FEF^c |dcAG FDFG|Add^c defe|
dcAG F2DF |EDCE FEF^c |dcAG FDFG|Add^c d2de:|

(or something, I’m doing this from memory.)

Of course my objection to the C-sharps have nothing to do with the fact that they are awkward to half-hole at proper dance speed. Not at all.

I think the tune should be Dorian, and the leading tone (C-sharp) into the tonic has no place in it because it transforms the Irish Dorian into Classical melodic minor which has a raised seventh step going into the tonic and a flat seventh coming out of it, the reason being that you want to accomodate the melodic pull or urge of the dominant chord. For D-minor (D-F-A), that V chord would be A-C#-E(-G). So, to my ears the C-sharp in Julia Delaney sounds too cadency, too I-IV-V-I, if you know what I mean. It doesn’t have that gritty Tommy Peoples/Bothy Band or Paddy Glackin feel.

Could those with more knowledge and experience of ITM confirm this for me? It seems so much easier to lecture the blasted fiddlers on Irish Traditional Music than to learn to half-hole a C# on a C-whistle. Thanks.

/bloomfield

[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-05-22 10:27 ]

2

shut the dorian it’s phrigian in here!

I agree totally.

I have often played in that key before
but the c#'s they never appeared before
Those fiddlers can talk about dorian
But they cant have their tunes ala modal.


Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! I’ve grown accustommed to that key.

smirks and giggles abound

3

On 2002-05-22 10:25, Bloomfield wrote:
As I am sure everyone here realizes, I am of the open, friendly, chummy sort. Wouldn’t think to argue or disagree or create any kind of unpleasantness. It’s live and let live for me, and let’s all have a drink. In fact, I think I surely have the milk of human kindness by the quart in every vein…

Don’t know about that Bloomy, all I know is

U R A Lamer


:wink:

MCM Transatlantic Whistle Detective Agency - No Case Too Small (terms & conditions apply)- Branches in London & Salt Lake City

[ This Message was edited by: Martin Milner on 2002-05-22 10:42 ]

4

I have often played this tune before,
but the Cs have never seemed so sharp before…

Good show there, tunemarshal! I knew someone would pick up on it.

Martin: I haven’t forgotten you know. And I never stood in my front yard at 3 am, either. Now get out of the way, this is SERIOUS. :smiley:

/bloomfield

[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-05-22 10:46 ]

5

maybe it’s a sign. we should all take up fiddles. :stuck_out_tongue:

6

I agree Bloomfield, the ddc#d passage is particularly icky.

You have lifted the lid a tiny fraction on a huge can, which if you lifted it further, would reveal a heaving mass of worms.

I keep telling myself that one day I’m going to write a PhD thesis (or at least a short article for some crummy web site), about the use and (IMO) misuse of scales, particularly gapped scales, in ITM.

Particularly as a whistle player, but even before, when I was a fiddler, I’ve been musing about the problem of spurious chromaticism, foreign notes as decoration, etc. etc. for a long time.

But like anything else, the more you look, the more complex you realize the situation gets. After long musing I don’t think it’s reasonable to propose that musicians return to modes pure and simple and never throw in any “impurities”. Also you haven’t a hope of turning back the tide.

OTOH, examples abound of what I consider bad taste and ignorant departures from the essence of a tune, and Julia Delaney c# is an egregious example.

You have to be careful how you voice your opinions on such delicate matters. Most of your fiddlers and box players will reject any notion that they may be playing a bum note (have you heard Peter Seller’s “bum note” ceili band sketch?).

I’ve given up, myself. Try telling someone that their version of McGettrick’s (A3 B defa | a2 fd efd B | etc.) would be better without any Gs (as in defg a2 ) and see what reaction you get. Blank looks at best.

I’d also say, in defence of fiddlers, that often when they play d# and G# with the 4th finger, it’s really like a microtonally flat e or A - a kind of open-string ornament (e d## e). When accordion or banjo players do it, then it REALLY sounds bad.

7

On 2002-05-22 12:25, StevieJ wrote:
I keep telling myself that one day I’m going to write a PhD thesis (or at least a short article for some crummy web site), about the use and (IMO) misuse of scales, particularly gapped scales, in ITM.

Please do!

But like anything else, the more you look, the more complex you realize the situation gets. After long musing I don’t think it’s reasonable to propose that musicians return to modes pure and simple and never throw in any “impurities”. Also you haven’t a hope of turning back the tide. …

I’ve given up, myself. Try telling someone that their version of McGettrick’s (A3 B defa | a2 fd efd B | etc.) would be better without any Gs (as in defg a2 ) and see what reaction you get. Blank looks at best.

That’s interesting. I came across this problem with another tune I’m learning for the 'dance crowd, and here I am a bit stumped. It’s a tune called Johnny William’s Jig, attributed to a fellow called Jim Mulqueeny, a fiddler from Clare of whom I had never heard. If I didn’t get too many mistakes in there, this is the version they taught me:

M:6/8
L:1/8
K:E dorian? A myxo? G? :slight_smile:
| dcA ABG | ABG ABc | dcA ABc | dcA GED | dcA ABG | ABG AGE | D2A cde | dcA GED :expressionless:
| DED c2d | edd dcd | D2A cde | dcA GED | DED c2d | edd dcd | efe cde | dcA GED :expressionless:

That rolls along beautifully moodily and modaly, but then there is that f-sharp in the seventh measure of the B-part. My moody modal conscience cries, Qui Va La? and I am deeply offended by the modal insensitivities of the age. BUT it really looks like it’s meant to be there, and like this Mulqueeny bloke knows what he’s doing. It doesn’t have the look of a mindless accordion player throwing in another “neat little run”. It sticks out like it’s meant to stick out. So is that the tide I cannot hope to turn?

(On a whistler’s note: This is one of the interesting tunes that can be played easily both on a D whistle and a C whistle. I use a C whistle because we play it in a set into an “F-major” G-dorian tune. So I start
xxx xxo
xxx xxx
xoo oox
ooo oox
xxo oox, you get the idea.

The only unusual part is that f# in the B-part, which can be fingered xxo xxo on most whistles that I have tried with a satisfactory f# (or g# on a D-whistle). And its good practice to get the
xxx xoo
xxo xxo
xxx xoo
down. But then, in my Dorian moods I am tempted to leave out the f# altogether.)

8

That’s a Miko Russell tune - can’t remember what he called it. Kevin Burke recorded it as “The Yellow Wattle”, with most of the low Ds in the second part played high.

Hey - the Cs are natural, nicht wahr?(With the possible and possiby dubious exception of one or two in the figure dc#A in the first part.)

As for your f#, I’m used to the sound of that note in that sort of place in that sort of tune. I might well avoid it, but I wouldn’t put it in the same category of yuckiness as your Julia Delaney example. Don’t ask me why, I just wouldn’t! One of the mysterious complexities I alluded to.

Ready to put all your modal preconceptions aside? Listen to “Casey in the Cowhouse” - particularly tunes such as Jenny’s Welcome and Banish Misfortune, if I remember right.

9

Yes, the Cs are natural. So I guess it would be A Dorian or more properly D myxolydian???

And it was my sense also that the f# was in a different category, although I have at this point safely crossed the boundries of my comprehension. Oh, well.

Do you know where I can find the Micho Russell recording of this? And where did Burke record it? I don’t remember it from If the Cap Fits. And where can I listen do the Cowhouse? Is that a band?

Thanks,
Confused à la Mode.

10

Can’t remember on what recording I heard Miko Russell playing that tune. But it was definitely him.

“If the Cap Fits”, yes that’s the one.

“Casey in the Cowhouse” is a recording of the late Bobby Casey as a young man in his prime in around 1959. Originally a home recording (made in a converted cowshed) it was released on cassette a decade or so ago. If you see it, grab it. I’d make you a copy except that I just looked and realize I’ve lent it to someone. (Now if I can remember who…)

Anyway it’s stupendous fiddling and I’m confident that his playing of Jenny’s Welcome and other tunes will dumbfound anyone who thinks they have a handle on the modes and scales of Irish music!

Footnote: Trying to remember where I heard Miko Russell playing your tune, I dug out an old pirate tape of the man. As luck would have it, the very first tune is Sporting Nell, which is a kind of D-mixolydian sort of tune, mainly f-less (although most people put in a few passing-note F#s in the first part). The second part is built around a cecgce figure and in the final cadence Miko plays this whopping long f# that stands out in exactly the same odd way as the one that is bothering you!

11

On 2002-05-22 12:25, StevieJ wrote:
…
You have to be careful how you voice your opinions on such delicate matters. Most of your fiddlers and box players will reject any notion that they may be playing a bum note…

Just wanted to report back on the Julia Delaney C#: I broached the subject with the fiddler, and he is all for C-natural! He had given me the sheet music with the c#s, but he said he never much liked the tune and couldn’t figure out why. We did it a few times au naturel, if you know what I mean, and he prefers it. So, I take back what I said about fiddlers, and vow in the future to limit my derision to accordionists and banjo-players. :slight_smile:

PS.: I listened to Burke’s If the Cap Fits again over the weekend and found the Yellow Wattle. Very nice and ripping fast. Had a good time playing along, although the high D’s in the B-part had me stumped a little. Amazing how he can make a tune swing!