John McHaffie Redux

Whistle
1

…And so there I was…Putting away my commercial Yamaha bore oil, after oiling my Busman whistle for the first time. I was placing the oil in a little used drawer and I felt something cold and metallic. I took it out and discovered a tube - with holes mis-aligned and not burnished. Behind it was another tube of the same size, with a head-joint attached. The memories came rushing back.

A long time ago, Mack Hoover was in my future, and the name Mike Burke had just been explained to me by Dale, probably over Europe somewhere, in Dale-Force One, while drinking mint juleps with an intern. I was a true beginner to the world of whistles and was just beginning to be affected by Whoa. Because of good reviews on this board, a website, and posts by the whistlesmith, himself, I ordered a D whistle from John McHaffie. It arrived and it played. There were issues, but they were addressed by the maker. I ordered a few more and accumulated a collection of McHaffie whistles in hammer dulcimer-friendly keys. The A tube was mis-aligned and out of tune. It was replaced. Some mouth-pieces were not satisfactory. They were replaced.

I found that as Whoa fully enveloped me, my Hoovers and my Burkes were a different level of instrument, and the McHaffie’s were not being played. They were parceled out to individuals and are still being used, to my knowledge…Anyone who has been on the board for awhile knows the outcome of the McHaffie affair. I was one of the lucky ones, I suppose. While I was left with product undelivered at the end, I had a positive relationship with John McHaffie. Were the whistles sub-standard? Yes…but I did not know it at first…Reviews on the board said otherwise…Was more going on than I - or anyone- understood? Yes…And I suspect, still is…

And so I found my McHaffie A in my drawer. I looked at what passed for a blade and marvelled that it played at all…

I am interested in hearing opinions concerning what we as a community have learned from this situation, so long ago, looking at it through the other end of the telescope…I am not interested in hearing John thrashed again…Whether his ills were truth, vapor, or self-inflicted, is not relevant…

So many excellent whistle-makers have joined us of late…I would name them, but I fear I might miss one…We are blessed…I simply wish to know what have we learned that will help us to ensure the situation concerning John will not happen again?

It is snowing here, again. Many in the last few years have wished for a ‘real’ winter again, in South-Central PA. The wish has been granted.

Best to all.
Byll

2

On 2003-01-29 07:43, Byll wrote:
I am interested in hearing opinions concerning what we as a community have learned from this situation, so long ago, looking at it through the other end of the telescope…I am not interested in hearing John thrashed again…Whether his ills were truth, vapor, or self-inflicted, is not relevant…

So many excellent whistle-makers have joined us of late…I would name them, but I fear I might miss one…We are blessed…I simply wish to know what have we learned that will help us to ensure the situation concerning John will not happen again?

Well, Byll, I hope we have learned several things, although at times I wonder how well these things have sunk in. First, that an honest review is more valuable than one that omits blemishes. Yes, stating negatives may result in some hurt feelings, but I think that they shouldn’t. Really, they are part of the feedback that may lead to product improvement if they are echoed by others and the maker actually cares about meeting the needs of the marketplace. Sometimes they play a role in assisting others who are considering what to buy and can’t simply drop by a shop and try it out themselves.

Second, we’ ve been reminded that one should consider the reputation and tastes of the reviewer when weighing the validity of a review. Not to say that I completely disregard a review by Joe Blow (or his ex-wife Susette), but there are a number of experienced posters here who have earned my respect as whistle afficionados, and I pay a bit closer attention to their reviews. Knowing what their tastes are, it leads me to put their comments in perspective. I’ll lean a bit further in one direction (or the opposite way) based on what they have to say and what I perceive their prefs to be. Some prefer a pure sound, some want more chiff. Some seem to accept a lack of a cross-fingered Cnat, while others (like myself) don’t.

Thirdly, we’ve been reminded that this forum does indeed represent the real world. Most people are good, a few are absolutely tremendous, and a tiny few lack integrity.

Only time spent here helps us to see who is who. In my case, it’s not that I mistrust or dismiss newcomers, but I simply don’t jump up and down based on their reviews of others’ (or their own) whistles. There’s no need to rush into anything.

Jef

3

I don’t know whether or not I speak only for myself or for other relative newcomers, but I’d like someone to explain, clearly and succinctly, exactly what this McHaffie business is all about. And no, I’m not going to do a search of the archives on this one. Since it’s obvious that newcomers would have no idea what this is about, why hasn’t someone done this already?

4

Wombat -
I think you’ve got the wrong attitude.
Do a search.
This subject has been covered many, many times.
It is not someone else’s responsibility to summarize it all for you.
Maybe you could do the research and provide a summary for the rest of the board?
Chris

5

On 2003-01-29 11:45, Wombat wrote:
I don’t know whether or not I speak only for myself or for other relative newcomers, but I’d like someone to explain, clearly and succinctly, exactly what this McHaffie business is all about. And no, I’m not going to do a search of the archives on this one. Since it’s obvious that newcomers would have no idea what this is about, why hasn’t someone done this already?

Because the point is somewhat mute, as John has since gone out of business (to the best of our collective knowledge). And, as Byll mentioned, it would be too easy to simply rehash unhappy feelings. He was a good guy that let his business get carried away and made promises that in the end he couldn’t keep (for whatever reason). He was a very excited new builder, very vocal on the board and in fact one of those responsible for starting Clips and Snips. He also disappointed a number of people.

6

On 2003-01-29 12:09, ChrisLaughlin wrote:
Wombat -
I think you’ve got the wrong attitude.
Do a search.
This subject has been covered many, many times.
It is not someone else’s responsibility to summarize it all for you.
Maybe you could do the research and provide a summary for the rest of the board?
Chris

Maybe you’re right Chris, but I just have a funny feeling about this topic—something about the way people allude to it that annoys me. (I wasn’t asking for a blow by blow account, just a paragraph explaining briefly what it was about.)

7

On 2003-01-29 12:15, ErikT wrote:
He also disappointed a number of people.

Ummm… as in, every single person who bought a whistle from him (whether they received it or not).
Chris

8

Thanks Eric and Chris. I think that’s really all I needed to know to follow this discussion..

9

Sorry to be snippy Wombat… I’m sick as a dog and not in the best of moods.
Anyways, I started to type up a summary for you but decided to stop because it’s just too complicated.
The best summary I can give is this:
Those who bought McHaffie whistles either got extremely bad whistles or simply never saw their money again and received no whistles at all.
The most amazing thing about the whole fiasco was that it was, in a lot of ways, our own darn fault because almost nobody spoke up initially to say how bad the whistles were, and those who did speak up in criticism of the whistles were yelled at by the rest of the board for being critical of Mr. McHaffie and his whistles :roll:
You would think we would have learned our lesson, but those who give negative reviews of whistles/whistlemakers still generally tend to be ganged up on and eventually silenced by a mob of angry whistlers who refuse to admit the possibility that there could be some bad whistles and bad whistle makers out there.
Chris

10

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=1935&forum=1

11

Okay, Wombat, here’s the take of an observer. I never ordered from this gentleman, so I am only giving a brief summary of what I read on this board.

Some time back (couple years or so), a regular poster who had been experimenting with whistle design announced that he was now in business making whistles. He was using copper pipe and eventually also aluminum. There were a few initial positive reviews. He put up a website with several anonymous gushing comments from customers. Then, this board stopped seeing regular input from him and started seeing messages like “anyone get a McHaffie lately?” or “anyone heard from McHaffie?” The long and short is that he was taking payment and failing to deliver. He answered some of the early comments and apparently was suffering several problems, including computer crash, burglary, and so on. Then, the negative reviews started coming in. Shortly thereafter, he disappeared from the board and from the web with several people left waiting for orders that never arrived or got refunded. That led to hard feelings, as you can understand and still see today.

I’m sorry if anyone considers this to be inappropriate, but it really is easier for a new person to read a synopsis than to search for a couple of hours to put together the information.

I have handled a friend’s McHaffie whistles. They are a fairly pretty design and they have some positive characteristics, but they are not whistles I would buy. I got the impression that they are decent amateur whistles, but that the consistency is spotty enough that I don’t think they should have been sold as a business endeavor.

-Patrick

12

Thanks again Chris (and Bloomy.) Very clear summary and worth investigating in detail as you suggested.

Hope the illness clears up soon, Chris.

13

Thanks Patrick. (I seem to be thanking everyone today.) As to the question of just when it is approprite to refer people to the archives, I don’t have a ready answer. I can say this: now I’ve been told briefly by several people what it is all about I feel much more inclined to do that search. Obviously, we still haven’t quite come to terms with the issue of what to say when we really don’t like a whistle but do like the maker. I don’t have a ready answer to that either but I think we have to be honest but don’t need to be gratuitously rude. But that’s not very helpful, is it?

[ This Message was edited by: Wombat on 2003-01-29 12:57 ]

14

What I learned from that mess was: don’t trust ‘I just got an Acme whistle and I love it’ type of ‘reviews’. As comments that someone thinks their new whistle is spiffy, they deserve congrats on their new acquisition, but its a really lousy time for someone to judge the quality of their new instrument. I’m MUCH more interested in hearing that someone got a whistle 6 months ago, and they’re still playing it extensively and this is why. Or they’re not playing it and THIS is why.

I learned that I don’t give a hoot about what someone thinks of the tonal quality of a whistle because my interpretation of certain words and theirs are vastly different, but also in the whistles I’ve tended toward – wooden ones – each has their own unique voice, and whatever theirs sounds like, mine won’t.

I’ve learned that putting money down on an undelivered item is risky, but I don’t think it will change my buying behavior.

15

RE: “I simply wish to know what have we learned that will help us to ensure the
situation concerning John will not happen again?”

Simple. Never, never pay up front for goods/services - whistles, aluminum siding, landscaping, whatever.

16

On 2003-01-29 14:06, Hipbone wrote:
Never, never pay up front for goods/services - whistles, aluminum siding, landscaping, whatever.

Is life really that simple? If so, then we’d never do any mail order business whatsoever. Not with Amazon.com, not with the Whistleshop. Heck, I wouldn’t even be able to visit my dentist (who generally asks me to pay before sitting down to get a pre-determined procedure done).

It’s possible to be that black and white, but it comes at a cost. Most people end up drawing the line somewhere in between…and it’s at that in between spot where there’s a bit of risk. Of course, too much risk may lead to a big cost, as well.

But never? Really?
Jef

17

Jef, I would agree with the axiom to not pay for anything up front. And when you think about Amazon, you really aren’t paying up front. I use a credit card, which provides a good deal of protection. In the past, when I have had issues with sellers not providing a proper good or service, I have contacted my credit card company, and each time have had the charge removed from my card.

John Mac

18

Cheque, credit card, paypal, whatever, you’re paying up front, John. You’re taking a leap of faith, a risk, that everything will turn out right.

The fact that the transaction is easily undone through the credit card company doesn’t change the fact that mail order usually means paying up front and taking a risk. The credit card process just gives you a bit of insurance in case the risk you took doesn’t turn out.

Hey, I didn’t buy from John McH and don’t want to argue this point here much…it’s just that a blanket statement saying, “Never, ever pay up front” seems a bit too idealistic for my way of thinking. But that’s just me. :slight_smile:

Jef

19

Well, I’m one of the people “disappointed” by John McHaffie, meaning I sent him a cheque never getting a sausage back from him (except for mails with tales and promises).
What have I learned from it? Now to distrust other people even more than we usually do?
Ok, I was quite mad and maybe even a bit sad for a time, but I’ve tried not to learn from this. I still want to trust people (ok, I lock my door, when I leave the house, I’m not that naive), and I surely still want to trust the folks on this forum. And many times this trust has been rewarded, in fact it’s a reward in itself, I’m sure. So I won’t let some black sheep like McHaffie take this away from me, even when I have to pay a price for it sometimes. Otherwise I would have lost much more than a few bucks then.
Cheers
Claus

20

On 2003-01-29 14:06, Hipbone wrote:
RE: “I simply wish to know what have we learned that will help us to ensure the
situation concerning John will not happen again?”

Simple. Never, never pay up front for goods/services - whistles, aluminum siding, landscaping, whatever.

Just tonight I saw a whistle for sale here on the board and sent an inquiry to the seller. If I take the attitude of not paying before receiving it, I’m not likely to get it at all. Why should he send it to someone he doesn’t know, and trust me to send the money after I get it? So if none of us send the merchandise until getting paid and no one pays until the stuff arrives, where does that leave us?