Does anyone have any experience with John Bishop Low D whistles? I don’t see any review posted on the site.
They are very similar to the Copeland Low D (probably because he was an apprentice to Michael Copeland) but cost a lot less. One of the players in our weekly session plays one and it sounds and looks really nice.
Living in Canada and having to deal with the exchange rate, currently > $1.5 Cdn to $1 US, this sounds like a very viable option to me. The only problem is getting a hold of one. I did a Google search and found that the store that sells them is about 2 miles from my house. They don’t have any right now but are looking into getting some real soon
If any one has a review of these I would appreciate reading it.
I had one of these, for awhile, a couple of years ago. It was, to my eyes, identical to the Copeland. Not similar: Identical. Any differences between it and my Copeland were so slight they I couldn’t see them. It sounded great and played great. Because he had been an apprentice to Mike Copeland and I had no reason to believe that Mike had agreed for him to make whistles identical to Copelands, I felt it unethical to support what he was doing with notices in Chiff & Fipple. I would also have ethical problems with buying one. I had a very gentlemanly exchange with John about this. I asked him to consider developing his own design.
From what I’ve heard - through the grapevine of course - he is developing a new model so that this problem can be put to rest. I think that is why they are unavailable at present.
I had one of Bishops Low D’s about 8 months ago. I purchased it new, not really understanding at the time what was going on between Bishop and Copeland woodwinds. In fact, I’m still not entirely clear what the situation is currently, however I understand that Bishop is now working on a slightly different design - at least this is what the folks at Keltic Nations (his Canadian distributor) told me about 6 months ago.
The Bishop I played was very similar in sound and appearance to a Copeland, but I immediately noticed differences in the tuning slide and mouthpiece. Unfourtunately, the Bishop Low D I got had some serious tuning problems, and so I returned it for a refund. I ended up losing money on the deal.
My advice at this point would be: Don’t buy one without trying it first. Returning it to have tuning problems sorted out can be a long and frustrating process
I’d also say that Bishop is not very good about returning e-mail. He totally blew me off after promising to make me a whistle about a year and a half ago. I only ended up with a whistle later because I found a shop in Canada that was selling them.
Loren
[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2001-11-16 09:01 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2001-11-16 09:02 ]
Since Keltic Nations is located between where I live and where I work I will be able to try the whistle before buying it - if that’s what I decide to do - and if Mr. Bishop ever gets around to making any more.
I would just like to say this assumed breach of ethics seems a little unfair if one considers an instruments appearance has little to do with its quality of sound.Imagine how frustrating it would be if guitar makers would be prevented from using X style top bracing or if a violin bow maker would be restricted in applying design features essential to its function simply to stand out in the market place.No two whistles can ever be identical and that brilliant sounding guitar,violin or whistle may well be the work of an extremely talented apprentice.Peace, Mike
Actually, I didn’t say that Bishop was guilty of a breach of ethics. I said I would have felt like I would if I supported his whistles. As I say, we had no harsh words whatever.
While I apreciate Dale’s opinions on this, I would not have any problems buying one of these whistles. If Copelands have an issue with Bishop making whistles that are similar or breaking patent laws, then that’s a different story. I have not seen any evidence of this. I know someone who knows John Bishop and I think there is more to this story than meets the eye.
Does anyone know of a patent holder for a whistle? It seems to me that there is a lot of “prior art” out there that would make it difficult to get a patent. Has anyone patented their whistle?
Without trying to get too much into this, I’ll post some facts:
John worked in the Copeland shop for about 5 months, hardly an apprenticeship. I’ve been working with Michael for over three years and still have lots to learn.
The design John was using that Loren mentioned (basically a head joint that slips over a tenon on the body) was used on earlier Copeland whistles. John saw examples of this at the shop and has a Copeland Low D, as well.
We have not been able to set an agreement on use of the design, which John has admitted, is far too close to the Copeland design.
John does want to come up with a whistle design of his own and is working to that end.
Michael and I believe (and hope) that John did not intentionally try to copy, he just couldn’t deviate much from what he had seen when trying to create a successful conical bore Low D design.
We wish John well, he is an excellent musician and a good person. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. And we can certainly use more fine instruments in the world.
