OK, I’m not talking about the next celebrity boxing match on Fox TV. I’m curious how C&F folks feel about the different styles of the above whistlers. While admiring MB’s incredible talent, I for one can’t stand to listen to her too-many-notes-per-minute style she uses on her Feadoga Stain CD. It comes across as just a wall of noise. It takes too much work to listen to it. I do, however, enjoy JM’s style on Song of the Irish Whistle. I realize that with their level of talent, each could play in the other’s style if they wanted to. I’m merely talking about the style of playing they use on these CDs, and about our own personal taste here. How many of you prefer one or the other, and why?
I have to agree with you there Hawk. I have tried to follow Mary and learn some of her work but just cant get those trills that she seems to put everywhere. They obscure the original tune.
Joannie on the other hand has an elf like quality to her music and I just fell in love with her when I heard her song of the irish whistle.
I like JM’s Song of the Irish Whistle 2 better than 1, with a couple of exceptions. In general, 1 sounds more new-agey. I’m glad I have it and I listen to it, but it will never be my favorite.
I don’t have the Bergins yet, but have listened to snatches online. I have the same reaction many people have, to Feadoga Stain 2. All I hear is a wall of sound and I quickly click fast forward, only to find another wall of sound. The earlier CD – Feadoga Stain – sounded to me as if it was not as wildly fast. Am I right about that? If so, I might buy that one.
YMMV
TK
I have both of mary bergin’s feadoga stain cds. The first is better than the second. that’s all I’ll say on the matter…
Joanie Madden is cloying, sappy-sweet treacle to me (no offense to Joanie, a great instrumentalist). Technical expertise floats my boat, and I suspect that Mary Bergin’s so-called ‘trills that she seems to put everywhere’ are simply beyond the listening ability level of most casual whistle aficionados that are exposed to her amazing proficiency on this simplest of instruments.
I originally was awed by MB’s technical ability, and I do think there is a place for that. I agree that it seems she tried to do something different, just as JM has tried to bring a slower, more melodic perspective to the Craft.
Personally, I think MB probably plays slower normally and that JM plays more traditionally normally and that if you got them in the room together, they would both be awesome in every way that our IRTrad bones desire, and we would all be gnashing our teeth at having heard fresh, new standards to live up to, ones that are different from the ones we’ve grown accustomed to from their extant work.
I greatly admire both of these artists, and anyone who says otherwise is a big fat stinky lamer.
The](http://www.geocities.com/whistleannex/index.html%22%3EThe) Whistle Annex, Home of the Chiffboard Matrix
[ This Message was edited by: DazedinLA on 2002-06-23 16:57 ]
Does anyone remember when, in the film Amadeus, the emperor told Mozart his music had too many notes?
[ This Message was edited by: ysgwd on 2002-06-23 17:08 ]
Listening to Mary Bergin play trad is like listening to bethoven play clasical, it just doesn’t get any better while listen to joaning is like hearing the elevator music version of the same bethoven piece. IMHO, of course.
Ron
Hmmm . . . given this thread, I’d say I like both artists, but prefer JM’s fans. MB’s fans seem to go on the attack if you disagree with them. Seems to me that prefering one or the other doesn’t necessarily mean the listener is less musically competent, a worse listener, stupider or anything like that.
I’m an English teacher and I tend to like some difficult writers, but I don’t think people who prefer something I might consider lighter are a lesser life form. It’s a great way to stop the discussion before it gets started, you know?
TK
Somebody on this thread refered to Mary’s “trills that she puts everywhere”. Hmmm… those are rolls, cuts, crans, tonguing, slirring, fingered vibrato - all techniques essential to playing the whistle in the traditional Irish style. Mary is, among those who actually play traditional music, hands-down considered the queen of the tin-whistle. Many of todays top whistle and flute players found inspiration and instruction by listening to Mary’s albums. In an interview, Joannie Madden recounted how as a young girl she listened to Mary’s albums on vinyl, slowing them down so she could learn them note for note, ornament for ornament. Ask any decent whistle player, and especially a superb whistle player, and they will tell you what an inspiration Mary was to them. I don’t mean to be insulting, but I would suggest that if you are unable to appreciate, or understand, what Mary is doing in her playing then you simply do not know enough about Irish music and how to play it. Joannie Madden is a genius and can play traditional music with the best of them- having taken lessons with her I can say that with authority - but her solo albums are essentially new-age music, catering to the crowd who appreciates non-intrusive, relaxing, easily understandable “Celtic” music. Until Joannie releases a truly traditional album showcasing her real talents then Mary Bergin’s albums will remain, without question, the most brilliant example of pure-drop Irish whistle music ever recorded.
Chris
I have both JM’s “Song of the Irish Whistle” CDs. I don’t have MB’s CD but I have listen small portion of MB’s whistle CD on Amazon.com. Both JM and MB are excellent artists. The difference between them is not their talents, it is the different melodies in their CD. The melodies in MB’s CD are fast and she showed her technical ability that I think not many other players who can catch her ability. However, I am a person more interested in feeling than in technique and this is the reason I appreciate and enjoy JM’s CD very much. There are 12 songs in JM’s “Song of the Irish Whistle 1”, but I usually select “The Immigrant”, “Down by the Salley Gardens”, “The Level Plain”, “The Black Rose” and “The South Wind” to listen because the melodies of those five songs are full of passions and feelings. JM’s CD is not just showed her techniques and also through those melodies she selected that she presented her feelings and passions.
I have been monitoring this thread and debating whether or not to throw in my 2 cents. After reading Chris’ post, I can’t imagine being able to convey my opinion more eloquently than he did. Thank you, Chris.
What I would add is that the question posed as to your choice of these two artists is indicative of the two camps on the board - those that prefer to listen to and play the pure drop and those that prefer celtic. MB and JM are the top of their respective genres on CD. I’d venture to say that the same preference spills over into what whistle you prefer and how many you have. This opinion of mine is not a criticism, nor elitist, nor any other negative connotation that can come to mind (I stress that disclaimer is response to tkelly’s accusation that those who chose MB “…seem to go on the attack if you disagree with them.” It comes from the statements I’ve read from those that stick by Generations (or any cheap whistle you like) and the traditional sound v. those that prefer the pure, non-chiff qualities of high-end whistles. It would be interesting to take this further and know what the listening tastes are of those whistle groups.
Yes, I prefer MB, and Micho Russell, Willie Clancy, Michael Coleman, Paddy Canny, Joe Burke, Kitty Hayes, P. Touhey, T. Reck… I don’t like Chieftains, Lunasa, Afro Celt Sound System, JM’s 2 CD’s, Paddy Keenan’s new stuff. I stick to my beat up Generations, a Clare and a Sindt or two. Do I consider myself better, or elitist, NO, and I don’t begrudge you that like celtic and high-end whistles.
Teri
Teri, I’m curious why you don’t like the chieftains. Not angered or offended, just curious. You listed the chieftains in the non-trad column and that sparked my curiousity. I know they put out alot of cd’s featuring rock, county, latin, ect guest but their older work and water from the well are very traditional albums. I’d be interested to hear your opinions on the chieftains and why they’re not in your traditional column.
Jck Murphy
On 2002-06-23 20:56, MurphyStout wrote:
Teri, I’m curious why you don’t like the chieftains. Not angered or offended, just curious. I’d be interested to hear your opinions on the chieftains and why they’re not in your traditional column.
Yeah, me too, Teri. And again, I’m not offended, angered, etc. It just doesn’t seem that the statement about the Chieftans fit the rest of your post. BTW, Teri, that was an interesting observation regarding choice of whistle, type of music, etc. For the record, my favorite whistle is my Sweetone, it’s the one I play the most. I do own a Thin Weasel and a Copeland. I just don’t play them anywhere near as much as my old Sweetone. It’s an old friend.
Regarding Micho Russel and MB, the two have nothing at all in common other than their whistle. I watched the Whistling Ambassador yesterday and his playing resembles hers in no way that I can see. Maybe he has CDs where he plays more like her? All I know of him is what I saw on the video (which I greatly enjoyed, since you were curious about what kind of things the JM camp likes). So…I like Micho and Joanie and my Sweetone. Do I fit into a category like you were thinking?
My liking or not liking the Chieftains doesn’t necessarily put them in any category. I enjoy their first 2 or 3 CD’s, but not much after that. Although Paddy is a very talented arranger, I personally don’t like his arrangements of trad. tunes. The later CD’s tend to be a little too shrink-wrapped and over-processed for my taste… good bad or indifferent. Water From the Well took a step toward more traditional for them and there are a couple of tunes on the CD that I enjoyed. If I look at all the CD’s they’ve produced, on the whole, I don’t care for the majority of them.
As far as Micho Russell and Mary Bergin - Micho was born in 1915 and Mary in 1949, so if there are any similarities in style, Mary would be influenced by Micho. As example, to my ear, Micho’s style on, “The Man From Clare”, sounds similar to Mary’s style. I think another possible influence on her style was Willie Clancy. Have a listen to his “Minstrel From Clare” CD.
Teri
Thanks, Teri, that will fill a gap in my CD collection. I’ll get it right away.
On 2002-06-23 22:07, blackhawk wrote:
So…I like Micho and Joanie and my Sweetone. Do I fit into a category like you were thinking?
Oh No! We’re placing ourselves in categories? Sounds as though you may be a cross-whistler.
T
I’m going on Oprah tomorrow, “The shame of cross whistling…can anything be done?”
Maybe I’m just versatile. I even like MB’s version of Aisling Gheal.
Just to have another opinion to make better statistics, I just don’t like Mary Bergin’s music. I mean, I never want to put her CD in my CD player and listen to her. I know she is 1000 times better than I will ever be able to be, but I don’t like her style and I just think it’s too fast, I just don’t appreciate her music. For me, this isnt irish music the way I like it or hope to play it one day. But there’s no doubt she’s one of the best technical player on the planet!
The first time I heard Mary Bergin play, I thought to myself… “now that’s what Yngwie Malmsteen would sound like if he played whistle instead of guitar”. 