Realizing of course, the two aren’t mutually exclusive…
I’ve always played flat, on any flute of any style. Teachers cringe, conductors stare and I can only pull up the pitch by really concentrating on breath control.
Today I was playing my silver flute, doing long tones in the mirror, looking at my VERY crooked embouchure and thinking about a recent discussion here about placing holes when making a bamboo flute.
Then it occurred to me, I center my lower lip on the embouchure hole but I actually blow halfway between the middle of my top lip and the left corner of my mouth (I have an exagerated “cupid’s bow shape” on the top lip so blowing out the middle is impossible). Could this extra distance (probably about a centimeter) be what has me chronically flat? This sounds almost too simple. I’ve had years of lessons and no one has ever brought this up. I’ve always been told that I “just play flat.”
I’m wondering if I should try to play out of the right side of my mouth, center my bottom lip differently or just forget about it and keep doing what I’ve been doing. Could this even be an issue or is it too minute a difference to worry about?
You may be insane but there we are there, is’nt much I can do about that, but you possibly could alleviate your suffering a bit by raising your right elbow an inch or two and also pushing it a bit further away from your body. Worked for me. I suppose it directs the air down the flute better.
I understand Marcel Moise had a really crooked mouth as well.
Since no one has a truly perfect embouchure and the dimensions of flutes vary, there are adjustments that can be made to bring you up to pitch. Good breath support is very important, but it’s not so easy when you’re running out of air. Try rolling the flute away (out) from you to raise the pitch a bit, especially on sustained notes as the strength of the breath stream gets weaker. Also, make sure your chin is up and your flute isn’t drooping as this can put a sort of kink in the windpipe.
Try rolling the flute away (out) from you to raise the pitch a bit, especially on sustained notes as the strength of the breath stream gets weaker.
I’ve been rolling out and “eyes to the skies” since fifth grade
I’m still flat. Most flutes are tuned to be pulled out a bit, allowing some wiggle room. I’m routinely pushed in and still flat.
Edited to add: Thanks, Springrobin and welcome from another relative newbie to the board! I didn’t mean to sound snotty wth the first sentence, I meant it to show just how long I’ve been flat. I’m constantly pushed in and rolled out! I’m beginning to think I’m the brunt of a big practical joke and everyone keeps changing all the tuners of the world.
Janet, I have had to deal with a similar problem. When you play in front of the mirror, look for the stream of condensation on the embouchure plate that indicates the direction of the airstream (easier when the flute is cold). Then move the position of your lips on the embouchure plate to center the airstream on the embouchure hole. You will likely notice a significant improvement in intonation and tone. Then it’s just a matter of learning to do this without the aid of a mirror. This method works on wood or metal flutes but is easier to see on the metal ones. Good luck!
Janet- there is some kind of a connection between how tightly focused our airstream is and how far out we can angle the flute. or maybe it’s that a smaller embouchure, higher velocity airstream will naturally be a little sharper than a larger, airy blow. you might consider working on a tighter, harder tone for a bit.
also, maybe play around w/ your embouchure generally. try different ways to sharpen a tone: jutting the jaw, tightening the lips, blowing harder, etc. even try out extreme variations of these things & see what happens.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Y’all have definitely given me some things to fiddle around with this winter! Maybe I can conquer my intonation issues once and for all.
It’s also nice to hear that a few other people have the same issues. I always thought most fluters were sharp. Now I don’t feel like such an oddball.
alas, none that clearly answered your original question about centering embouchure and pitch.
wish the photos on this page of embouchure pictures were bigger. at least one (P) looks like someone using a “sideways” embouchure: http://www.larrykrantz.com/embpic.htm
a centered embouchure seems pretty basic, so moving towards that could make a big difference in a lot of ways. let us know how it goes.
Janet, I am the one who is crazy. I do not know why you do not do what to me is the obvious thing: Sound the best quality sound. Then adjuat the slid so you are not flat. I know you are a much more experienced flutest than I, so what am I mission?
You’re not seeing the extent of my flatness. We’re talking concavity here.
I am usually pushed in all the way unless I concentrate very hard on support to raise the pitch. I know that causes problems because in performance situations sometimes I get lazy (especially in cramped pit work where I’m thinking more about how to quietly rid the cramp from my leg than tucking in my diaphragm!) and the pitch goes down, down, down… Plus, sometimes I need to tune to an organ or piano that is a tad sharp and I have absolutely no wiggle room.
If my perpetual flatness is the result of a correctable embouchure problem, fixing it would save me a lot of frustration.
I guess the easiest answer would be to save up my pennies and get a nice flute maker to make me a D-sharp flute Doesn’t fix things on the Boehm side, though. I’ll never save up that many pennies!
I don’t know if the crookedness affects it all that much. Every time I’ve ever seen anyone (sweeping generalization) play a bansuri, it was completely crooked compared to what we’d consider “orthogonal.”
Then there’s the opposite, who might be our own Harry Bradley, who sometimes rests the headjoint on his shoulder and whose head is then perfectly perpendicular/tangential (depending on how you want to talk about it) to the headjoint.
I dug out the old tuner and experimented for some data.
The results… Stuart seems to be right. Even when I move my bottom lip to the right, the intonation doesn’t change (although my tone sank to new depths!). Someone suggested I check out the condensation marks on a metal flute. I did this and found that my airstream seems to be centered so I’m compensating somewhere.
The good news, I don’t have to have plastic surgery to correct my embouchure
The bad news, I’m still flat and apparently can’t blame it on my anatomy
A lot of good suggestions were made and I’ll be experimenting for a while. I’ll be pushed in, rolled out, head up, lips tight, diaphragm supported, flute up, shoulders down… I guess no more playing sprawled out on the couch watching “Starting Over”!
Thanks for the help and for listening to me babble.
I’m crooked, too! In fact, I’ve recently been experimenting with flute placement specifically because of that … in my case though, tuning doesn’t really seem to be a problem, but I’m not happy with my tone.
Anyway, despite years of private lessons this piece of advice we used to get from our college marching band director, of all people, has so far served me best (although it does make me feel like a fourth-grader getting ready to launch into “Red River Valley”) … but here goes …
… Make sure your head’s straight and the flute’s parallel to the ground. As someone said earlier in this thread, no droops whatsoever.
It’s hard to do in a crowded pit, but the sharpening/brightening effect is amazing, at least in my hearing & experiences.
I have been experimenting and the lack of drooping is helping which is ironic sense I’ve been concentrating on NOT holding it at a 90 degree angle for ergonomic reasons. Arghh!
So many details for something made out of a piece of wood. I think I’m going to start even further back than “Red River Valley” and try to do everything right this time. “Hot Cross Buns” anyone?
I came up with this info, most of it you know.. but I found this part interesting…
It is especially important to maintain proper support when playing soft, a dynamic in which flutists often decrease the amount of support and as a result, play flat. When playing soft (and when running out of air at the ends of phrases), try pushing out your abdominal muscles and chest instead of letting them cave inward. This, coupled with the jaw and bottom lip movement forward, will help keep the pitch from going flat.
With all the advised contortions we have for good playing, it’s remarkable we get any sound at all out of these things on our own!
