once againg the cork is getting off from a joint of my copley flute. it already happened about a month ago on another joint.
the flute was made in 2003, so it’s possible that it’s really time to change the cork, but hell two times in a month!
now i’m thinking that maybe i’m doing something wrong in the maintenance of the flute. so, how often should i use the cork grease? an answer could be “when it becomes hard to assemble or disassemble the flute”, but what if that happens every days? is it ok to put the grease every day?
thanks,
Lorenzo
That sounds like something’s wrong somewhere. I’ve changed the cork in one of my joints one time in the more than 10 years I’ve had my flute, and that was because some bug had gotten into my case and chewed on it. I believe it’s important to grease the new cork often as it soaks up the grease. I don’t think you can grease it too much. Just a little dab’ll do. I’ve had new cork on one section for more than a year now, and I’m still greasing it more than the other cork.
Also, I try to twist the flute in the direction of the overlap of the sheet of cork. That’s hard to explain, but you want to twist so that the twist twists in the direction that the cork was laid on. Once the sections are seated, I sometimes twist in the other direction, but when I’m putting the sections together or taking them apart, I twist in the direction that the cork was laid on, so that the overlap is shoved together instead of apart, if that makes sense.
Michael
What are you using as cork grease, I remember reading, on the forum, that petroleum based products can cause cork to deteriorate.
What are you using as cork grease, I remember reading, on the forum, that petroleum based products can cause cork to deteriorate.
i use a normal cork grease, bought in a music shop…
yes
very little
very often
Cork joints should always be greased before assembly…at least that is what I was taught back when I was playing sax and what my local instrument repair main advises as well.
Re-corking isn’t hard to do and I think it’s fun - you can buy cork at your local music store (if they repair instruments) and they can usually advise you on the correct size (or Jon C can jump in and remind me what size is most common). You can glue it on with rubber cement, sand down a bit if necessary, and be sure to cut the ends at an angle so the cork overlaps onto itself.
Eric
Isn’t this fun? This is why I use thread with thread grease. Cork over tenons is definitely not user friendly!!!
I highly recommend getting rid of the cork, then thread wrapping the tenons.
Casey
For some reason, which I cannot explain and is probably inexplicable, I have a totally irrational dislike of threaded joints and immediately replace the same with cork on any flute I obtain.
Fortunately, as an ex-clarinet/saxophone player I have a large supply of suitable cork and can easily carry out the replacement myself.
Please note- as already stated my dislike of threaded joints is totally irrational, and I was as bad at playing reeded woodwinds as I am at flute.
^I can’t help but to be with you. No matter how many times folks say that thread seals as good as cork, I just can’t wrap my mind around it. In fact, thread obsessively worries me on any instrument I own. I’ve been playing corked instruments since childhood and have rarely had any problems. I can see cork beginning to deteriorate long before it loses seal. It’s not as ‘traditional’, but - at least in my mind - more reliable. And there’s something to be said for that. Some folks probably have the opposite reaction.
New cork should be greased every time the instrument is put together. After a while, the cork will become embedded with the grease and will not need it as often. I always give it a quick swipe with my fingers before assembly to check it.
I used to like cork, but I have to agree with Casey, if done properly, thread is much better.
^Oooo… I would love for your to qualify that statement! Why is thread better?
I’d genuinely like to know the answer as well.
I’m OK with either one and have always replaced whatever the maker originally used with the same…that said, I can see wisdom in threads in that you can remove some or add some if the instrument is swelling or shrinking any because of the weather and I believe, correct me if I’m wrong here Casey, that thread also strengthens the tennon since it is wrapped tightly there.
Eric
I have to disagree with both and say that when cork is done properly it’s superior to thread, IMO. What I think of, and was taught, as proper though is rather different than how many makers cork.
That said, recorking a previously threaded instrument can be somewhat problematic at times, particularly if the maker originally oil finished the wood prior to thread lapping - in this case it can be hard to get the cork to stay put for long. Although superglue on the wood can help.
Casey, as a maker I’m surprised you’d publicly suggest altering another living maker’s work, particularly as I know you’d be quite irked and probably have a few words to say if another maker suggested immediately replacing the thread on one of your flute’s tenons with cork. Based on other things you’ve written here, I imagine you would then say that the person had voided the warranty on your flute? (Which is fair enough indeed) Correct?
Loren
My warranties are voided when they put cork on flutes made by me. Otherwise I was offering a suggestion for a problem.
I have seen cork done well and correctly. I have also seen cork done well and correctly on my flutes - yet this always results in a cracked socket because my sockets aren’t designed for cork, even if properly done!
But corking a joint is beyond the skill level of the amateur player. Also it is beyond my skill level! Or that is, I never bothered to learn how and don’t plan to waste my time on it as thread has worked well for over 3000 instruments. Also, in my current Lyme Disease -compromised state I doubt if I could tolerate the fumes of the common cork cements.
Thread wrapping is something most of my 3000 clients can and have mastered however, demonstrating its safety and end user friendliness. Most don’t endanger their instruments this way, but get more intimate with them and its maintainence, and it allows them to make adjustments on the fly.
My suggesting this does not really fit into the category of suggesting altering another makers work similarly to offering oiling suggestions. I am not telling anyone to revoice an embouchure or undercut a fingerhole on their Copeley Flute. Thus no taboo has been broken here.
Casey
Thread wrapping can also prevent a tenon from splitting - especially in the manufacturing process when one is drilling fingerholes and the piece is mounted and squeezed between conical centers.
Tenons are much less of a problem than sockets and on some of my factory second flutes I will restore a cracked socket by wrapping several turns of thread, tying the end under the wraps and sealing it with glue so it doesn’t unravel. Am getting my thread directly from Gudebrod (it is widely available at fishing rod suppliers everywhere) and am thinking of using some of the fancy threads for this just to make an indestructable socket.
One historical flute observation with thread wrapping, especially seen on old boxwood flutes - is that over time the thread can actually compress the tenons and make the bore narrower at this spot. More so if the wall is relatively thin. One has to take this into account when one makes an accurate historical reporduction. Also, one then has to ponder overall shrinkage and warpage. Am sure this is discussed more at your workshop, Loren, than in mine where I am not trying to historically reproduce anything. But there have been several articles on this and I can see it in my research materials.
Casey
PS Will be back later. Gotta go teach 3 hours of class about Django. Re another thread - I listen to that these days. And play on my tweaked Gitane 250. Everyone, please order a bunch of flutes quickly and often from me so I can afford one of Shelley Parks’ great guitars someday!
Formerly listened to lots of opera while flute making but now my middle age hormones or lack of some thereof make me tear up too easily at a well sung female voiced aria. Especially Puccini, Mozart or Verdi. Irish Flute Music - I listen very rarely and reluctantly. Or I would go mad! Similar to the scene with John Malkovich in the movie “Being John Malkovich” when he looks through the portal into himself…
Ah, that’s all interesting, Casey.
Why is cork a problem with some sockets? Does cork put more pressure on the socket than thread?
When you repair a cracked socket on one of the seconds, is the thread on the outside or inside of the socket? I suppose on the outside it could become a decorative feature!
Point centers?!? 
Casey, you’re killing me! 
If you have to drill or do any other work which applies lateral forces to the instrument, use cup centers man!
I’d say holding the instrument in a full length V-Block while drilling is better, in order to avoid having the instrument potentially rotate or bend, but hey, that’s just me - I know you’re more of a thrill seeker who prefers life on the edge Casey. 
One historical flute observation with thread wrapping, especially seen on old boxwood flutes - is that over time the thread can actually compress the tenons and make the bore narrower at this spot. More so if the wall is relatively thin. One has to take this into account when one makes an accurate historical reporduction. Also, one then has to ponder overall shrinkage and warpage. Am sure this is discussed more at your workshop, Loren…
Ack, no!!! Discussions of shrinkage and warpage?? Best not to discuss such things in mixed company! (Seinfeld anyone?)
Loren
I have to say this is truly a significant issue, Lyme Disease or no, for those of us who do, or have done, much corking and or re-corking. By my best calculation, I averaged approximately 8 corks installed per day, 5-6 days a week, for two years straight. So…about 4400 tenons corked. That’s a lot of glue inhaled, not to mention acetone on all the jobs that were re-corks. In retrospect, I very much wish I hadn’t been exposed all those fumes, as many of them are known to be really bad for you. Of course, had i known in advance how much corking I’d be doing, I’d probably have thought twice about the whole apprenticing thing 
Ah well, it’s only brain cells and cancer to worry about… 
Loren
O, mio babbino caro … 
I’m firmly entrenched in the thread camp. You can’t adjust cork the way you can thread – on a humid day, just undo a few turns, on a dry day, add a little – plus cork nicks or tears sometimes when it swells too much and yeah, I so hate it when cork goes “tharn” and slips off completely.
(the only worse thing is when your cork tenons swell up and you can’t get the silly flute apart for half a day)
Anyway, on the several occasions when my cork-lapped flutes slipped their cork I figured it was a glue/shellac - vs - cork-grease thing; or POSSIBLY glue/shellac -vs- almond oil. i.e., I’ve wondered if almond oil might have soaked thru the cork and loosened the glue over time. And maybe this makes me a goofball but I like to oil my tenon ends and occasionally the tenons themselves – they’re the thinnest wood on the flute and can easily get as damp as the bore with hard playing.
But that’s just my own darned opinion (based on the most scientific conjecture, of course )
Now, Casey, if you were to post a clip of you playing Django on the Gitane … that’s one I’d be all over listening to!