Has anyone suggestions for a tuner useful for whistle making?
It should have an easily visible display, for use in a brightly lit workshop.
It should not be too expensive (ruling out strobe tuners).
My ideal tuner would be programmable for programming different tuning systems, it should not only do ET tuning. It should have pitch calibration, and be able to play any note in the choosen tuning system, so one could tune by ear against reference tones, which should sound reasonably loud and good.
How good is the Korg OT 120?
It has some inbuilt alternative tunings, but it is not programmable.
Or the KORG LCA 120 ?
It shows volume level as well as pitch, which might be handy.
Don’t know whether this would work for your purposes, but Flutini is a pretty neat application. It provides tuning over the entire range of notes played, during playing. In that way it avoids the “blowing it into tune by watching the needle” syndrome. It’s downloadable at http://www.novasession.org/Flutini/
Flutini is quite cool. But I am looking specifically for something which can live in the workshop, and I don’t want to run a computer there.
Otherwise Syaku8 is also quite a good software tuner.
Hans,
I use the Korg Master Tune multi-temperament tuner and I’m quite happy with it. It offers 8 different pre programmed temperaments plus a selection to program your own. Not sure what I paid for it but I’m guessing about $200… a bit pricey but well worth it.
I’d guess the OT-120 is more what you’re looking for, Hans. I like Korg products, and I prefer a physical needle to an LCD only. If preset ET and Pythagorean aren’t enough, you can always keep a table of cents offsets handy.
For the iPhone/iTouch, the Peterson iStroboSoft is only $9.99 US. The Peterson StroboFlip runs around $199.
For my own fussy tuning, I have an original Conn ST-11 strobe. I like the big, pre-digital, industrial box, and I enjoy twisting the knobs.
Thanks guys! Yes, a real needle may be nice, but the OT120 meter looks quite small, like 10 cents on the scale is about 3mm (1/8")? And the temperament tunings included seem to be useless for my purpose, even the Pythagorean tuning because of its sharp thirds. Does the display show the frequency in Hertz of a note played, or is the number I see on the pics just for setting the base calibration?
It looks like Korg dropped the Master Tune MT 1200 in favour of the OT 120, but they left out the programmable temperament feature.
I am tempted by the Korg LCA 120 because of the larger display, and the “focus mode”, which stretches the scale to 10 cents, and the volume indicator, which should really help prevent the temptation to blow a whistle note into tune. But I don’t know how flickery the LCD “needle” is. One can also program one custom scale, but that would be less useful when tuning whistles of different keys, as this programmed scale cannot be transposed.
@cavefish: I got a Korg CA-30, similar to Korg GA-30. The LCD screen is too small, not backlit, and very difficult to read. Not much use on the workbench for me. I need a much better display.
Actually i did not know you where an advanced maker, i was just adding comments, i just make simple instruments a little money here and there, nothing high scale , and your right if i were making things on your scale this would be a pain in the butt, a back light and a “sit up” model would be better-------but thanks for being kind
If you mean by “scale” production volume, this is very small indeed,
and my workshop is just six square metres .
If I had the money I probably would buy a strobe tuner.
I just want a tuner which can sit next to my drill, so I can check tuning while enlarging holes etc.
Ideally I’d love to have a blowing device, in which I can regulate the airstream, to have a more objective way to tune.
But in the end all tuning falls down to playing and listening by ear.
I mean the final test is to just play, and tweak as necessary.
Hans, this is an interesting topic. Not just the particular tuner used but the process of tuning. Thanks, for bringing it up. I have been using an older Korg chromatic tuner, long out of production, in the shop for years. It does a good job, IMO. But I do find that my shop and the environment surrounding it is a bit noisy with shop machinery, heating/ac, local traffic (occasionally) and bird song in warm weather when the shop doors are open. So the Korg is used for the shop tuning and I go inside to a quiet room where I do my recording and use a decent side address condenser mic and a software tuner as verification of the shop tuning. Adjustments are made when necessary. I then can also record the whsitle alone or with a pre-recorded track to see how it sits with other instruments.
I’ve thought of that and shelveded that idea because a player doesn’t maintain the same pressure over the scale of the instrument. Just my current thinking anyway.
Yes, but increasing the airflow linearly over two octaves might work?
And such a device could give me a much better idea of what pressure/flow is required. Right now I asses pressure by checking the time I can play a reel, starting with full lungs, till I run out of breath.
That’s worth experimenting with. I stopped experimenting after one try of connecting a whistle to a small compressor.
At the moment I am of the belief that the skill and experience of the whistle-maker as a whistle-player is a major contributor to the tuning process relative to breath pressure. I do like the idea of Flutini.
Sure, but I notice how easy it is for me to compensate tuning issues, quite unconsciously, just by adjusting the air flow, a little more or less push. These unconscious adjustments can get in the way to get an objective judgement about the tuning of a particular note.
I know exactly what you have gone through here. So far the only way I have found to check a whistle that I suspect I am making unconscious adjustments to. Is to put it aside unplayed for no less than three days. Then play each note in both octaves. dD, eE, f#F#, gG, aA, bB, cC Then reverse to Dd, Ee, F#f#, Gg Aa, Bb, Cc. It also helps to have not played anything for a day or two. Ears need a rest also.
My first tuner was a KORG CA-30 I ruined a few whistles before I figured out that the tuner was listening to everything. The TV, AC blower, cars driving by. I went to a Harp shop, and bought a clip on acoustic pickup for the tuner, and it works but is a nuisance to put on the whistle, and remove.
Yes, you’re right! And this is why I find this subject so interesting and hoped this discussion would develop. The potential for that issue is high if concentrating on tuning one note at a time or octaves even - again just my opinion and YMMV. So I like to play tunes and scales as well. I find I revert back to “autopilot” when I do that. We’ve all noticed these issues and strive to avoid them as best we can. That’s one reason why real time tuning analysis appeals to me. I can play away (hopefully not thinking too much about what I am doing) and pray the software tells me what is on and what is a little off. I think we have to attack the tuning process from a few angles that act as checks and balances. We probably all go about it in different ways. It’s just not a matter of doing the calculations and drilling the holes where the spreadsheet says they go, is it?
Good points, Tommy! I generally take some time between tuning tasks, maybe a week or more, depends on my schedule. That’s a great point about resting the ears. I try to limit the number of whistles I tune in a day. There is always something else to do in the shop between whistles. You need to be fresh to hear things well. Hardware and software tuners don’t have that issue but you still need the ears. But I don’t think I could go a day or two without playing anything before tuning a few whistles though - too many musical commitments, too many instruments, and too little time.
Hans, let us know what your experience is once you get the new tuner.
That’s the good thing about Flutini or other similar tuners with memories. You can play away for a while, not looking at the tuner, and then check back and see how all the various notes average out over the entire time you’ve played. No more blowing one note into (or out of) tune.
But I find that I adjust notes automatically, unconsciously, by ear. Flutini would not pick that up.
One other thing I do quite a bit to get a different perspective to counter subjective playing, is to have a whistle played by others, advanced and beginner players. I gained much valuable insight that way, especially about merits and shortcoming when developing a new design. Some tuning issues have come to light that way, which I could then address afterwards.
I know you said you didn’t want to run a computer but an ‘ancient’ second-hand laptop, with its screen resolution set to the lowest (to get a big image), running sayaku8 could be placed on a shelf or bracket well away from the workbench and controlled with a cordless mouse on the bench. You could have sets of reference tones ready to run etc.
