# I keep reading posts about how you only need 6 holes... **URL:** \ **Category:** Irish Flute\ **Created:** [February 20, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486 "2013-02-20T04:51:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Clover](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/c0e974/32.png) [@Clover](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/1 "2013-02-20T04:51:11Z")
but I never see a serious player without a keyed flute. Does a keyed flute sound better than a non-keyed even if the keys never get used? Does the extra mass of the keys contribute to the the overall tone and make it the better pick? Just curious and wondering if I decide to move up from my plastic Dixon to a wooden or Delrin whether a keyed flute would be worth the extra money. ---
**Author:** ![kkrell](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/kkrell/32/249_2.png) [@kkrell](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/kkrell)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 6:55am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/2 "2013-02-20T06:55:11Z")
> [@Clover](#): > > but I never see a serious player without a keyed flute. Brian Finnegan > [@Clover](#): > > Does a keyed flute sound better than a non-keyed even if the keys never get used? No. > [@Clover](#): > > Does the extra mass of the keys contribute to the the overall tone and make it the better pick? No. > [@Clover](#): > > Just curious and wondering if I decide to move up from my plastic Dixon to a wooden or Delrin whether a keyed flute would be worth the extra money. No. and Yes. Depends on whether you want to play in other keys, or avoid cross- or alternate-fingerings for full chromatic ability. ---
**Author:** ![psychodonald](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/p/958977/32.png) [@psychodonald](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/psychodonald)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 7:28am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/3 "2013-02-20T07:28:35Z")
Hi Clover: I don’t know about extra mass that the keys may provide, I’m not an expert; however, I can give you my personal experience–for whatever that might be worth. I think that mostly it is the person playing the flute that makes things “sound better.” Having a well made instrument is, of course, very important, as having a duff flute is most discouraging and could, and most likely would, discourage a person to the point of giving up. Are there serious players who don’t have keyed flutes? Yes, I know some folks who play very well (they are very serious about their music) who wouldn’t even consider a keyed flute- and I’ve heard a variety of reasons they are not interested in a keyed flute-to each his own I suppose. Most ITM can be played on a non keyed flute; however, I enjoy being able to touch a key and producing the note that I need. Frankly, my ability to cross finger isn’t that great and I don’t suppose it will improve, especially since I play a keyed flute as my principle instrument. I have a six keyed and an eight keyed flute as well as some non-keyed flutes. I have found that I enjoy learning a variety of flute music, TRAD and otherwise, and find that having keys enhances that experience for me. Having keys has opened up a whole world of wonderful music to me that I wouldn’t have even considered w/o keys, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Gumby](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/mr.gumby/32/5273_2.png) [@Mr.Gumby](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Mr.Gumby)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 10:14am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/4 "2013-02-20T10:14:12Z")
> but I never see a serious player without a keyed flute. Here are a few: ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/Willie%20Clancy%20Summer%20School%202010/Willie10_5_MickOConnor.jpg) Mick O Connor ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/Phanly_zpse4c2d9ff.jpg) Patsy Hanly ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/Willie%20Clancy%20Summer%20School%202012/Willie12173.jpg) Tom O Gorman ---
**Author:** ![Bran\_Ruz](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/bran_ruz/32/1726_2.png) [@Bran\_Ruz](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Bran_Ruz)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 11:26am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/5 "2013-02-20T11:26:15Z")
Fintan Vallely, Eamonn De Bara… The question should be : what do you want to play ? And then do you need keys ? ---
**Author:** ![bogman](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/bogman/32/1792_2.png) [@bogman](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/bogman)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/6 "2013-02-20T12:28:35Z")
Surely you don’t mean serious players or Irish/ Scottish etc traditional music? There are hundreds of great keyless players. Not only that but I think it’s fair to say that many of the older players only had keyed flutes because it was all they could get a hold of with the abundance of wooden keyed flutes following the classical music shift to the metal flute. Many didn’t ever touch the keys. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Gumby](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/mr.gumby/32/5273_2.png) [@Mr.Gumby](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Mr.Gumby)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/7 "2013-02-20T12:33:44Z")
> [@Bran Ruz](#): > > Fintan Vallely, ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/Willie%20Clancy%20Summer%20School%202012/Willie12082.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![LorenzoFlute](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/lorenzoflute/32/1272_2.png) [@LorenzoFlute](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/LorenzoFlute)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/8 "2013-02-20T13:05:27Z")
Patsy Hany do play keyed flutes. Maybe the one in the picture is an Eb, it’s not the one he usually plays anyway. Seamus Tansey doesn’t use keys (he actually removed them from his old flute…! Same with Fintan Vallely I think). I wouldn’t consider Brian Finnegan a flute player, even though he does play the flute… It all depends on what you need, many don’t use keys even if they have them, personally I couldn’t do without. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Gumby](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/mr.gumby/32/5273_2.png) [@Mr.Gumby](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Mr.Gumby)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/9 "2013-02-20T13:09:04Z")
> it’s not the one he usually plays anyway. I have seen him play this flute on at least seven or eight occasions over the past six to eight years or so. Alone and with others (I probably have a recording of at least one occasion of him with three other fluteplayers). I don’t doubt he has other flutes but I have not seen him play a keyed flute during this time. Here’s a clearer shot with a bit more depth of field from a different occasion: ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/PHanlyFlute_zpsfcc13783.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![LorenzoFlute](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/lorenzoflute/32/1272_2.png) [@LorenzoFlute](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/LorenzoFlute)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/10 "2013-02-20T13:52:16Z")
![](http://s18.postimage.org/8yyce5n0p/316181_10150385898678927_902206823_n.jpg) And this is a picture I took in November 2011, and I saw him with the same flute last year in Miltown Malbay. Looks like the flute he’s playing on this video from a few years ago: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCU07LkzSvE](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCU07LkzSvE) And of course back in the days he used to play his old keyed flute: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjLcfnY8-gY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjLcfnY8-gY) ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Larry\_Mor\_Mott](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/lars_larry_mor_mott/32/1950_2.png) [@Lars\_Larry\_Mor\_Mott](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Lars_Larry_Mor_Mott)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/11 "2013-02-20T14:22:34Z")
Regardless of who plays what/keyed or keyless it’s hardly a measure of ‘seriousness’.. I have heard amazing playing from Marcus Hernon, Tom Doorley and Frankie Gavin (among many others) on keyless flutes. ---
**Author:** ![jim\_stone](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/f4b2a3/32.png) [@jim\_stone](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/jim_stone)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/12 "2013-02-20T14:34:09Z")
Mike Rafferty sometimes performed on a keyless Olwell. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v08kq6qHiss](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v08kq6qHiss) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Gumby](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/mr.gumby/32/5273_2.png) [@Mr.Gumby](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Mr.Gumby)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/13 "2013-02-20T15:05:39Z")
> I saw him with the same flute last year in Miltown Malbay. FWIW, the photo in the first post was taken during the WCSS flute concert (and he used a keyless during all his appearances at the fluteconcert over the past years). He used the same flute during the Saturday night concert (with Pauline, see below). But again, I don’t doubt he owns and plays other flutes and I wouldn’t like to speculate which of them he normally uses. I can only say what I have seen him use over the years. The point of the exercise was to illustrate in a lighthearted way some fluteplayers I would consider ‘serious’ fluteplayers playing keyless flutes. ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/Willie%20Clancy%20Summer%20School%202012/Willie12181.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![MeMyselfandI](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@MeMyselfandI](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/MeMyselfandI)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/14 "2013-02-20T15:32:35Z")
Orlaith McAuliffe 🙂 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaaUoc-lrZc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaaUoc-lrZc) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Bliven](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/steve_bliven/32/624_2.png) [@Steve\_Bliven](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Steve_Bliven)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/15 "2013-02-20T16:15:24Z")
The Gumby Archive of Photography (hopefully a for-profit organization) is also greatly appreciated for its artistic and educative aspects. Best wishes. Steve ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Gumby](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/mr.gumby/32/5273_2.png) [@Mr.Gumby](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Mr.Gumby)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/16 "2013-02-20T16:17:16Z")
> The Gumby Archive of Photography (hopefully a for-profit organization) is also greatly appreciated for its artistic and educative aspects. ![](http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2009/359/5/1/PhotoPhenom_avatar_by_dbestarchitect.gif) ---
**Author:** ![LorenzoFlute](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/lorenzoflute/32/1272_2.png) [@LorenzoFlute](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/LorenzoFlute)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/17 "2013-02-20T16:50:59Z")
> [@Mr.Gumby](#): > > ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/Willie%20Clancy%20Summer%20School%202012/Willie12181.jpg) Not that it matters much, but it _looks_ like you can see a long F key on that flute, though the picture is too small to be sure. Of course, memory may be doing tricks on me about last WCSS, but he was most certainly using a keyed flute in Ennis two years ago (as shown in the picture), as well as in the videos I linked. Sure I agree, some very serious flute players find no use in keys, it all depends on what you are used to and on what you feel you need. ---
**Author:** ![tin\_tin](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/tin_tin/32/232_2.png) [@tin\_tin](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/tin_tin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/18 "2013-02-20T17:19:41Z")
Good questions, Clover. People often make a big fuss about keyed flutes, making them seem like better instruments, but a flute isn’t going to be better because it has keys. (People oooh and ahhh over keyed Olwells, for instance. But that’s because they’re attractive, involve a long wait, and cost more. However, they’re just as good as his more common unkeyed flutes.) Here’s what the man himself had to say in an [interview](http://www.firescribble.net/flute/olwell.html): > The six open holes has been the design of the flute for at least 10,000 years. Maybe even 30,000 or 40,000 years. Being played by the human breath you can feel the air under your fingertips. Material comes from nature (wood, bone, bamboo). Relationship with nature has something to do with it. There a not a lot of fancy chromatics, and you don’t need keys. So here’s what it comes down to: Do you routinely play (or want to play) in keys other than D, G, and the related minors? Are you interested in spending much time in the third octave? If so, keys have a role. If not, they don’t. P.S. Lovely photos, as always, Mr. Gumby. Thanks for sharing! ---
**Author:** ![Bran\_Ruz](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/bran_ruz/32/1726_2.png) [@Bran\_Ruz](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Bran_Ruz)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/19 "2013-02-20T19:31:56Z")
> [@MeMyselfandI](#): > > Orlaith McAuliffe 🙂 > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaaUoc-lrZc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaaUoc-lrZc) She used to play a keyless, she’s now playing a six keyed flute. Both from Hammy. ---
**Author:** ![Clover](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/c0e974/32.png) [@Clover](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486/20 "2013-02-20T23:02:08Z")
> [@Mr.Gumby](#): > > > but I never see a serious player without a keyed flute. > > Here are a few: > > ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/Willie%20Clancy%20Summer%20School%202010/Willie10_5_MickOConnor.jpg) > > Mick O Connor > > ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/Phanly_zpse4c2d9ff.jpg) > > Patsy Hanly > > ![](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Kilfarboy/Willie%20Clancy%20Summer%20School%202012/Willie12173.jpg) > > Tom O Gorman Thanks for enlightening me on this and the other posts. I didn’t realize there were so many guys like these out there. I appreciate it. [Next page](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/i-keep-reading-posts-about-how-you-only-need-6-holes/85486.md?page=2)