I’ve practiced and practiced on the whistle for a couple years now…and I’ve been getting serious about it lately…been listening to traditional Irish songs from different groups…groups that go very traditional to traditional with the modern feel. I love Irish music, and I love playing the whistle…but I’ve made it to the point where I want to get more out of what I do.
I know many of you have bands formed out there…my uncle and aunt have a group in California, The Celtic Heart Band. I would like to start a group of my own. But I don’t know how to go about starting up such a thing. I don’t know anyone in person who can play the fiddle or especially the bodhran…or any other Irish instrument. Do I have to post something in the paper? I dont know the first thing about being in a band. I sing and the whistle is the only instrument I can play…I’ve even written songs for the whistle, so they could be played on the violin as well. But I can’t read music, so that may be a problem.
I am just curious to how all you guys have started bands up. Maybe I could start an Irish music appreciation group in my town and that could be a first step
Tips! Tips would be lovely!! I just want to play…play along with other people who have the same interest in music as I.
Perhaps you should find and join in ITM sessions in your area or nearby towns. If there’s nothing local you may have to travel a bit. This may be the best way to find out if you’re as good as you think (not a criticism). This is also the best way to find out who in your area plays which instruments, who you might get along with, who shares your tastes in ITM, and who has similar desires to form a group.
djm is dead right - go out and play in some local sessions before you do anything else. You get a good feel for what it’s like to interact with others of similar persuasion, both musically and socially. These interactions are needed to a well-developed degree when you play in a band, and playing in sessions is a good place to hone these skills. In the band situation you are more “exposed” than in a session, and you will have to have done some practising and arranging stuff together to a greater degree, with a fair amount of give and take thrown in, so you need people who are not just good musicians but people whom you get on with. If you’re good it will happen.
I started playing “seriously” well into my 40s, taking the path I’ve described. For a few years I’ve been in a band consisting of three of us (“Three In The Bush”), and, while we haven’t exactly made a fortune, we’ve had a load of fun.
Sounds like your energies are all in the right place. As the others said, sessions are great places to not only find new challenges - they are great ways to connect & network with other people who are on your brainwave. All of the people I’ve done gigs with I’ve met either directly or indirectly through a session or a house party. Be warned though; money changes people, bands can make best buddies into worst enemies. Since there isn’t money involved with a session they tend to have a different focus; tunes, craic, etc.
Thanks you guys! I’m sure when I start doing sessions I’ll realize that I make tons of mistakes, i’m totally prepared for that. But I know I’ll learn the most that way.
I may start off small and try a Celtic music appreciation group. I’m bound to get people interested in learning about the instruments…or there may be at least one person who plays. It would also be a nice way to meet people with the same interests.
Hi Kerry,
I would be a tad cautious about going out full-force to start a band. And although less so, I would be a cautious about sessions too. Now, this is not to say that starting a band or going to sessons are innately bad. But given that you’ve only been playing for two years, there is a danger of being overwhelmed by others before you’ve had a chance to really develop and solidify your own voice and your own style playing and technique.
Sessions can be really great in developing your playing, but they also can be a wash of dubious influences and reinforce bad habits (especially on the whistle when you’re often just struggling to hear yourself!) Ideally, what you really probably need is a real/live flesh and blood teacher, someone to help you stay focussed and tell you when you’re playing like sh*te or trying to do too much. Now, I don’t say this to be a downer, but to help you cultivate what is in your heart–a true love and dedication to the tin whistle and irish music. I don’t know what your situation is, but if you can find a way to bust loose and get to ireland for a few months (year?), my hunch is that what you are looking for cannot help but find you and buy you a few guinness along the way.
…can’t tell if you live in a somewhat large city/town, I just know you’re “somewhere in Washington”. I’ve been playing in and out of bands for the last ten years of my life. I have never played any Irish trad in any of those bands, it was mainly rock n’ roll. But, I think that no matter what style of music, the forming of a band is inherently the same.
If you don’t know anyone right now whom you’d be interested in forming a band with, make some flyers. Put the flyers up in places that you’d think musicians would frequent. You know your town better than I do, so I’m sure you can figure this out! Is there a university or a community college in your town? If so, find out where a good place to post your flyers would be. When making a flyer, be sure to present it in a way that catches one’s attention. Don’t use regular fonts and boring graphics.
At the same time, go out and start networking with musicians in your town. This means simply going to your local venues (bars, coffee shops, theaters), anywhere you’d find local musicians playing.
If you feel that you are truely ready to form a group, go for it. I can’t stress enough that you have a “vision” for what you want the band to be. That way, when folks start contacting you (or vice versa) you’ll be able to clearly state just what it is your looking for with the music, the musicians, etc. Ultimately, the people that you join-up with to form the band should be folks that you’d like to hang-out with as well. I’ve never been in a band where the only time we’d see each other is at practice or at a show. I made sure that before we played even one note together that we all enjoyed each other’s company. After getting to know your band mates, eventually you should ask yourself if these are folks you’d want a good friendship with OUTSIDE of the band.
Being in a band is exciting, fun and most of all it’s a learning experience. You’ll learn about your strenghs and weaknesses in a way that playing by yourself would never reveal. So, be thankful for the terrible nights when playing a show that nothing seems to be going right (it will happen). And, be thankful for the nights when the music is perfect (this will happen, too).
I would be a tad cautious about going out full-force to start a band. And although less so, I would be a cautious about sessions too.
…Just go for it, Silver. Like I’ve said, taking risks is the only sure way to learn more about your strengths and weaknesses. If you end up just sitting around all the time and thinking about whether your ready and skilled enough to start something up, then you’ll get nowhere. Fast. Being critical and remaining humble about your abilities and musicianship are imperitave, don’t get me wrong. But, hey, if you feel your ready to get something going, by all means get something started!
I remember an experience I had in my first band (towards the end of my high-school years). We had our first real show and we felt we were ready for it (looking back on it, we weren’t). We played terribly and were pretty much laughed off stage. Now, there are many people who would just give up at that point, full of embarrasment and self-loathing. But, you know what, that exprerience just gave me more fuel for the fire. I told myself and the others in the band that the next time we play a show, we damn well better know our material. A terrible first show gave us the motivation to get that much more serious about what we were doing. During the four years or so that we were together, our band ended up being one of the most popular bands in the area! Bad shows are inevitable, but what matters most is if you can remain humble and learn from the mistakes. By comitting yourself to take the good with the bad and dedicating yourself to practice, practice, practice, the band can only get better.
I think Brendan was warning about something else when he advised Kerry to be cautious of going all out to form a band at a beginner/intermediate playing level. Its the whole thing about being musically/stylistically comprimised - by trying to suit your band, your fellow band mates, by trying to please the audience, etc, that can be really bad. That will easily happen to someone without a rock solid foundation and a fairly mature level of playing. You’ll be basically put in an wonderful environment for cultivating bad habbits and stunting your personal musical and stylistic growth.
Also starting a band for the sake of starting a band is kinda like putting the cart before the horse if you ask me. I wouldn’t ever form a band unless I meet fellow musicians whom I have good musical and interpersonal chemistry with to begin with. Its just not worth the trouble otherwise. I would second the advice of seeking out sessions around the area, or even better, heading to one of the many Irish music summer schools/workshops. You’ll find a lot of other people with the same interests as you and get to up your playing chops.
I see no problem with starting up a band. Having that feedback form others…positive or negative…can be very educational and inspiring and could go a long way toward developing your musicianship. Besides, its not like you plan to play the ‘MET’ any day soon. The nice thing about dreams is that they’re very attainable, it is dependent on how much work you put into them…Look at U2, when they started, they barely, if at all, could play their instruments…that didn’t stop them from getting really big or really good.
I wouldn’t ever form a band unless I meet fellow musicians whom I have good musical and interpersonal chemistry with to begin with. Its just not worth the trouble otherwise.
…yep, you wrapped it up a bit better than I did:
Ultimately, the people that you join-up with to form the band should be folks that you’d like to hang-out with as well. I’ve never been in a band where the only time we’d see each other is at practice or at a show. I made sure that before we played even one note together that we all enjoyed each other’s company. After getting to know your band mates, eventually you should ask yourself if these are folks you’d want a good friendship with OUTSIDE of the band.
There have been many different posts arguing the fact on whether or not Silver should start a band/group. Is she ready? Is she talented enough? Should she just go for it? I know that I have never heard Silver play anything at all. I’m sure it’s the same for most of the other poster’s as well. Point being, is that Silver knows for sure if she’s good and ready or not. Since I’ve never met her personally and I’ve never heard her play, I cannot make a judgement call. Sure, she’s only been playing for a couple of years, but who are we to say that that time-frame is not long enough to cultivate a true talent for an instrument? I also whole-heartedly agree with those of you who are suggesting that Silver should go out to as many sessions as possible and explore her options. I firmly believe that one should always be trying to learn more. Music and otherwise. The only reason I’ve encouraged Silver to go for it as far as starting a band goes, is because she has stated that that is something she feels she’s ready to do.
Enjoyment of the music is paramount. If somebody wants to start an ensemble to further their enjoyment, why not? Where’s the harm in that? I frankly do not see that ability, talent or playing experience really have anything to do with it…especially if it’s about having fun.
Enjoyment of the music is paramount. If somebody wants to start an ensemble to further their enjoyment, why not? Where’s the harm in that? I frankly do not see that ability, talent or playing experience really have anything to do with it…especially if it’s about having fun.
…I don’t know if my last post came across quite the way I meant it to. To summarize: if Silver thinks that she’s ready to get a project going, I encourage her to go and do it! And, I agree with everything you’ve posted thus far, Joseph. Although, I do think that talent and playing ability_should_ have something to do with being involved in a band/group. Unless, said band/group is only planning on sitting in their living rooms and playing only for themselves. If the band plans on playing out in public, I should hope that their is at least some talent there!
Quote: "If the band plans on playing out in public, I should hope that their is at least some talent there! "
As do I, but I think it unlikely that they will get work without proving their ability to entertain or at the very least, not harm the eardrums of potential audiences…in the meantime, forming a band and learning stuff together is a great way to get that particular ball rolling.
As I pointed out earlier, U2 started a band with very little or no knowledge of the insruments they now play…and look where it has gotten them.
But this is ITM. There were no “bands” before ceili bands and Sean O’Riada so there was a pre-exisiting tradition of folks who knew their instruments backwards and forwards before anybody started a band.
Folks picking up instruments they just began learning to play and starting a band is the traditional way in Rock-n-Roll. If anybody does that in the ITM idiom it usually ends up being more of an “invitiation only slow session” that (might) gets gigs.
Aaron wrote: “Folks picking up instruments they just began learning to play and starting a band is the traditional way in Rock-n-Roll. If anybody does that in the ITM idiom it usually ends up being more of an “invitiation only slow session” that (might) gets gigs”
Not always the case, but yes, there is precedent for this statement. As for the second part of the statement. I dunno if I agree. I have know many people who were just starting out, formed a group and through rehersals became quite accomplished as performers of ITM. Some went on to perform professionally, and have been quite successful, most did not. There are those who have been playing all their lives, know the music inside and out, but I wouldn’t go see 'em if I were paid a large amount of cash (maybe a set of really nice pipes, but…). My point is, it doesn’t matter. Nobody forces me to go see a band I know little or nothing about, or whose musicianship is abhorable, but that does not mean people cannot get together and have fun with their music. If something develops that is worth ‘selling’ as it were, then great. If not, at the least these folks have their friendship and their fun. Discouraging them from forming a group is silly, and maybe just a tad elitest.
I think we all understand what it takes to get accomplished at ITM… a lot of listening and playing… and some more listening thrown in for good measure. These are not ancient times…though there are times I wish they were…we are not limited to one style, one instrument and one idea on how to go about playing ITM. I think that this is a good thing, and any insight from another player, in a group or other setting, can only serve to better our understanding and enjoyment of this, the greatest of all music…okay, so I’m a little more than biased.
There we go.. throwing the E word around again. :roll:
Sure, no one’s aiming to play at the MET, (the Chieftains?) but there can be so much depth in the music, so many subtleties, personal associations, that make the music so wonderful. Because of the richness of the music, why isn’t it fathomable that it might actually be more fun as well as meaningful, to go in depth in it? Once you actually step through the door, a whole world awaits you.
My stand is that theres no hurry where forming a band is concerned. Wait a little, listen a little more, and expose yourself to what the music is about. All the fun, friendship and musical companionship you seek, you will find it in a decent session. Save up and get your butt to a reputable irish music summer school, or even better, take a trip to Ireland and emmerse yourself in the music.
As mentioned before, it is my personal experience that forming a band will not do much good to the quality of a beginners’ music - in the irtrad context. It is even worse when you are looking for bandmates in a place where no one else plays the music, and your audience is more inclined to Wild Rover and Country and Western than your standard tunes.
Joseph you seem to be mixing up the conditions of playing in a session with practising as a group/band. If, however, you were to say that forming a band can be the impetus to practise more and become more proficient, I would agree that there is some merit to your argument. However, just to be good enough to survive a high-level session can be impetus for many of us, i.e. not falling flat on one’s face in front of peers whose opinions we value. In either situation, I think we are taking about not looking too stupid when playing in front of/for the entertainment of others.
I guess my point, though there’s nothing stopping anybody from starting a band no matter how accomplished they are, is that a band is not the impetus of ITM.
The way I understood SilverStrand’s question is that she was wondering what the next step was. In popular and contemporary music (through which she was introduced to ITM) it is a common step to start a band and SilverStrand was asking if this was a logical next step in ITM.
Since The Chieftains, Planxty, and The Bothy Band starting a band has become a popular option, especially abroad (meaning outside of Ireland). But for every Lunasa, Flook, and Dervish there’s Tommy Peoples, Harry Bradley, Ronan Brown and others who don’t pursue a band career. It’s just not a major option in ITM.
