Hello, I am new to the forum but have lurked for about a year just reading. I have been playing whistles for about two years, and have amassed a collection of 5 whistles and 2 low whistles. I have a question about my Howard Low D. Does anyone know if this can play a nice third octave E? I can sometimes get it for a fraction of a second if I am already playing second octave C, (second octave C# never happens), but if I stay on the 2nd C (half hole fingering), blow real hard and quickly traverse to the E fingering it squeals the third E, but quickly dies, and does not sound all that lovely. I have many times heard Davy Spillane produce a lovely third E from complete silence on his Overton…is that an Overton thing? Just blow hard enough and it works? I would like to play top C# too but it ALWAYS breaks to first octave. Every other note on this thing is well behaved and I love the tone of the whistle. Oh yes, I am fairly certain I have the current-production head. Am I just not brave enough to give it enough wind? Thanks for anyone who could explain this to me.
Welcome. What fingering are you using for the high 3rd E? xxoxxo works fine on my Overton. But hitting it from a standing start takes a very tight embouchure and a strong blow.
Getting a 3rd 8ve E is not just an Overton thing, nor is “just blowing hard” the way to approach it!
Every Howard I’ve ever played (a few over many years, mostly old type but including some new type ones) was horribly flat on 2nd 8ve B, generally unhappy in the upper 2nd 8ve, not keen to go to the 3rd 8ve and didn’t play at all evenly between the lower 2 octaves anyway… newer ones are a bit better than older ones, but not a whistle I would choose to play… That said, on almost any low whistle (and a good many high ones too) the 2nd 8ve open C# is rather flat - the simple system flute fingering oxx xoo often works very well, however.
3rd octave E (notoriously an awkward note on any flute or whistle) is unlikely to work usably/satisfactorily as a harmonic of the fundamental xxx xxo fingering - if it will sound at all, it’ll be way flat and poor in tone. One of xxo oxx (usually a little flat) or (as MTGuru wrote) xxo xxo (usually a little sharp) should be tolerable. These fingerings are both assisted harmonics of fundamental A - you may be able to get the 3rd 8ve E by double-over-blowing the A fingering, but it won’t be very keen to co-operate compared to the fingerings given and will be flatter than either of them. Both of those should be reasonably clear and easy enough to blow without massive pressure changes… although from memory I have my doubts about the Howard’s ability/willingness to go there, but obviously don’t have one to try out!
As for 2nd 8ve C natural, there is a whole bunch of possible/alternative cross-fingerings which have been discussed amply in the past (use the Search facility) - you have to find which works best on the particular whistle and maybe make use of more than one of them in different musical contexts - which sounds best in tune in a particular passage or which gives greatest facility of fingering.
If you need to go from 2nd 8ve C nat to 3rd 8ve E, I’d suggest exploring using C oxo xxx or ox xxo to E xxo xxo OR C oxo oxx to E xxo oxx; but none of those slurs upwards (C-E) at all readily even on a co-operative whistle - you’ll probably need to tongue the E, though the downwards slur (E-C) will probably be OK.
I thought it was just my Howard that had problems in the upper second 8ve and needing some gymnastics that I am not used to. Certainly nothing possible in the 3rd 8ve. Played in the lower 8ve, it has a great sound.
You’ll have gathered I have a seriously low opinion of Howards - would never ever buy one 'cos IMO they just don’t work properly - leastways, I’ve never met one I’d consider a viable musical instrument. Far better having a go at making your own from PVC pipe - or buy one of Guido’s - I think they’re cheaper than Howards and work better than many much more expensive ones.
Erm .. we talking bout whustules here??
What tune you wanna play??
If you want octave 3 .. well, you are a messiah of non-traditional folklore .. We all watching.
Is this like some tantric method to get better pleasure?
I did some of that but always put that damn whustule on teh “every 6th sunday” list.
You want music? or do you wanna be some kinda “Olympics” god of woodwinds.
for me humble self (LOL!!! - the sarkazm makes me split!!!) 2 octaves - get that going and get rid of your destructional ego .. after that .. well there might be 2 or 3 people on eeerth who will stick a dime in yer hat 
Most them wanne just feed their baby - end they don’t got nothing to feed you 
Join us
Crap man - I’m a stick! - I doin’ awright .. you gotta be better than me
(EEEEEEEdittteeed to say:: crap man - I still larfin!!! Post a tune and lest’s hear what you got ;0 .. never know - we might get impressed!! HAR HAR HAR HAR!!! GOooorn - Make us rong! EEEDyted once mooor to say: I’,m just s stick - I fell offa my tree just to be wrong! .. you, on the other hand . - Get going - we need to see and hear and turn tha weeeeell!. Inspiration is inside you and your whustule.. You have no need of octave 3)
(EEEEdytyde ooounce aaargin’) ta sayz: eeevreee ooon of yaaarz hazz tha soul - all I wanna se iz soulllzzz! - I am a stick - I am pina radiata - I am a weed in most counties, and yet, they use me for all their mission-critiacal housing objectives as soon as all are looking “away” ..
Don’t fool yourself - you will make muisical magic at every turn, and NO ONE can stop you (except yourself) get sterted - here .. we are looking .. and expecting - as are all of humanity - IT’S MORE THAN A WHISTLE - ANDless than 2 octaves.. - o figure))
Thanks everybody for the responses. Interesting Guido was brought up, all my whistles besides my Howard Low D are from him, and I love them a fair amount!
xxo oxx and xxo xxo didn’t produce a note for me at all (just animal noises), but i was able to get a modest (possible crap) 3rd E working with xxx oox. Enough blowing and then sliding G hole open just barely made it to the E, and it seemed to sound ok, but I haven’t checked the pitch against a song yet. If that fingering looks crazy, it absolutely is. But I was unable to produce a 3rd octave note with any other cross fingering. I tried those two holes accidentally, in frustration, and the 3rd 8tave began to sound. As stated before my Howard works great in the 2nd octave except for C#, which I haven’t gotten to work since I owned the whistle 
Hi – only just spotted your posting.
Howard Tuneable Low Whistles with brass tubes and plastic heads were first sold in 1985. The self-imposed design brief was to produce a whistle that was solid over two octaves, took little air, was balanced for volume and air pressure over two octaves, was tuned to an un-tempered scale (uilleann pipes) and did not sound like an Oberton. So your question about the fingering for a third octave E was not considered as important. However here are some fingerings for the C# and 3rd D that you could find useful
D6… OXX XOX – this uses the C hole like a saxophone speaker-key to produce a 3rd D harmonic. You can close the C note once it has jumped up, handy when you are coming down the scale. Try playing a second octave F# and then just slightly leaking with the C finger.
C# 6… OXX XOO by using the above fingering for D6 above and changing the tone-hole lattice by opening the bottom hole you, counter-intuitively flatten the note by a semi-tone. This gives a very pure sounding note.
Both these notes are played at a lower pressure than you would expect so be careful to give upper notes the correct pressure when descending.
As stated above the Howard tuneable low D has been in production since 1985 (Yes it is our 25th anniversary) and there have been literally thousands of satisfied customers. So be assured you DO have a “proper musical instrument”
Nuff said, we don’t want to turn this into a commercial post, the moderators may not approve.
Dorothy Howard
Secretary Howard Music Ltd.
http://www.howardmusic.co.uk
Low Whistles – Uilleann Pipes and Reeds
I have a Howard Low D that I got from ebay around 2003, so no telling how much older it is. As you said, it’s generally unhappy in the upper second octave; the b is really hard to get. But it differs from what you said in that you have to push the 2nd-octave b so hard that it gets really sharp, not flat.
So my question is: do you think the mouthpiece has been improved since then? If I buy a new Howard mouthpiece, am I going to get some improvement?
[quote=“jemtheflute”]<>
Every Howard I’ve ever played (a few over many years, mostly old type but including some new type ones) was horribly flat on 2nd 8ve B, generally unhappy in the upper 2nd 8ve, not keen to go to the 3rd 8ve and didn’t play at all evenly between the lower 2 octaves anyway… newer ones are a bit better than older ones, but not a whistle I would choose to play… <>
I took delivery of a Burke Low D in aluminum today. It plays 2nd C# with all holes open, and plays freely up the third octave without having to cross finger. The fingering to get a pure 3rd octave E? xxx xxo
This doesn’t mean I don’t still love my Howard; I am very much a satisfied customer with Howard. It was my first Low, I learned to get a proper piper’s grip from it, it has a unique tone to it (in my opinion) that I haven’t heard in other lows I have since tried, and finally it seems a bit more responsive than the Burke on first octave low end. Mine’s just a bit temperamental on the top end 2nd octave. Maybe I need to clean the windway and fipple, it has been a while. Thanks everyone for the input.
I’m with Jem with regards Howard Low D’s. I just don’t like them. I haven’t tried many, but they just didn’t float my boat. Everyone has different tastes and there are enough whistles varieties to hopefully find the one that does it for them.
Mick
I had a Howard Low D, years ago. Liked the tone, but never could get into the 3rd.
If my Burke Viper (alu.) is any indication, you won’t find many Lows that can match it, for easy access to high d and e. Clear as a bell, and no finger gymnastics.